D&D 5E What’s So Great About Medieval Europe?

[Argyle King]

You proved the existence of the concept, and I've never disagreed with that. You have yet to prove that this is a general rule observed by society. I still don't think it is. More even so, as I've stated earlier, I don't even think most of society cares about that. I know that I don't. And I say that as a person from mixed ancestry living in a third-world country (not that I care about the concept of "place of speech", but maybe you do).

I think saying it's a "general rule" is hard to quantify because it is an issue which does not have generally agreed upon lines. Obviously, things like black face are generally accepted to be negative. However, there's not a good general way to define what should and shouldn't be culturally offensive for a society comprised of multiple cultures as a whole.

That being said, I lean toward agreeing with Jester that cultural appropriation is something which receives a lot of attention. It's still an evolving societal discussion.

 

[fearsomepirate]

The world's always been a pretty nasty place...I mean, just about every major civilization was formed by ruthless imperial conquest and crushing resistance under the iron hand of the emperor. You'll do best by not trying to be mean to others while also not particularly worrying about how to properly sanitize the history of the world for incorporation into fantasy elf playtime.

 

[Krachek]

Last Kingdom is an interesting example because it showcases a variety of cultures. "European" isn't nearly as monolithic as is commonly imagined. From a contemporary perspective it is, but that's (coincidentally enough) because cultures have blended and have borrowed from each other over time. A large part of Uhtred's story revolves around being stuck between two cultures: the one into which he was born, and the one in which he was raised.

And DnD is not monolithic neither.
Persian, Chinese and Japanese culture at this time have much more to offer to DnD fantasy than European.

 

[MGibster]

The last 10 years has shown that the lack of someone creating or pushing a product does not constitute a lack of demand. There have been a lot of ideas that were though unprofitable pushed for decades that have suddenly made tons of money when the folk with the resources take the gamble.

This is the truth. Just because nobody's currently catering to a market doesn't mean there isn't any demand for something. People create new markets all the time.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I think saying it's a "general rule" is hard to quantify because it is an issue which does not have generally agreed upon lines. Obviously, things like black face are generally accepted to be negative. However, there's not a good general way to define what should and shouldn't be culturally offensive for a society comprised of multiple cultures as a whole.

But then you're appealing to a very specific phenomenon for which I don't think the concept of cultural appropriation being discussed here applies. Blackface (or brown/yellow/redface, for that matter) has its roots on historical structural racism and when seen on current cultural production, shows that this kind of prejudice still, persists.

That's very different from John Wick doing his best to present an honest fantasy version of Japan as a role-playing game and people bashing him because he actually was born in the country that nuked Japan and couldn't afford to pay a sensitive reader before publication.

In fact, I find the idea that your ancestry has a say in what kind of culture you get to be passionate about to the point of wanting to work with it to be more medieval than D&D...

That being said, I lean toward agreeing with Jester that cultural appropriation is something which receives a lot of attention. It's still an evolving societal discussion.

I agree it receives a lot of attention, but I don't think that attention comes - or will ever come, for that matter - from a lot of people (I believe those are different things).

As I said before, I see it more as a cultural trend that marks this moment. Previous generations had their own incursions in that field, later generations will have as well. I don't expect it to even become an issue of broad social relevance, especially as social scientists expect us to become more mixed - culturally and physically - as time passes by.

Once more, as someone who has never been to the US, I may be really wrong on my assessment of your reality.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Blackface (or brown/yellow/redface, for that matter) has its roots on historical structural racism and when seen on current cultural production, shows that this kind of prejudice still, persists.

A buddy of mine dressed up as a chocolate easter bunny for Halloween.

Man did THAT turn out to be a bad idea.

 

[Argyle King]

Once more, as someone who has never been to the US, I may be really wrong on my assessment of your reality.

Anecdotally, I can relate to that in a different way. I spent a lot of time outside of the US. Coming back -especially as I entered college-it was a bit of a culture shock to go from military culture (in which ragging on your friends was a common form of interaction) to a culture in which I had to so heavily censor myself, even when saying or doing things which I did not think were anything near being offensive. (I'm not saying one is more correct than the other; anecdotally, I'm simply expressing that it does arise often in certain spheres of American culture, and it does so far more often than I noticed while in other countries.)

In recent years, I've witnessed outrage at Scarlett Johansson being in the movie Ghost in a Shell. Likewise, Rocket Man received criticism from groups in the US because the actor playing Elton John is not gay in real life.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

A buddy of mine dressed up as a chocolate easter bunny for Halloween.

Man did THAT turn out to be a bad idea.

That's the kind of costume I'd expect to see someone wearing in a costume party themed around sexual fantasies...

 

[Minigiant]

This is the truth. Just because nobody's currently catering to a market doesn't mean there isn't any demand for something. People create new markets all the time.

Also just because something fails to find an audience before doesn't mean it never will. It could have been pushed to the wrong audience. Or it could have been just been don't poorly.

For example Games Workshop killed Warhammer Fantasy because it didn't sell enough models in the UK and they could not own the right to elves and orcs. Then the sold the rights to the dead setting to game dev.

And Surprise Surprise.
A bunch of Americans want to play with rat ninjas, Aztec lizardmen, zombie pirates, and bony Egyptians if the designers put effort in it.

Now they want to bring the setting back.

 

[billd91]

Likewise, Rocket Man received criticism from groups in the US because the actor playing Elton John is not gay in real life.

Perhaps the most disturbing irony about this particular issue is there's a nasty flip side that's been around a lot longer. If a heterosexual doesn't have the moral authority to play a homosexual, then how exactly does a homosexual have the moral authority to play a heterosexual? This would be why an actor like Richard Chamberlain chose to stay in the closet (until unwillingly outed) - to not undermine his credibility to play a romantic lead in a heterosexual relationship. Jane Lynch even cited this sort of thing as one reason she was reluctant to come out and why she understand actors who choose to not reveal their sex preferences.

No matter that someone may have good intentions about improving representation or resisting damaging appropriation, cultural or sexual (if that's a thing), it's a weapon that's got 2 edges that can lead to things that are also damaging.