D&D 5E What’s So Great About Medieval Europe?

[Argyle King]

You aren't going to grab a random African American off the street to write your fantasy Africa book. You are going to look at writers with the talent to do it well and if you have the choice between equally talented white and African American authors, you are going to pick the latter. That's how you put out quality content and diversify the talent pool.

From an emotional standpoint, my gut reaction is to agree. However, I then consider what the professor I had at college for AA Literature looked like. She was (and continues to be) far more educated in the nuances of the subject than either myself or my classmates at the time. While I'm wary of the fallacy of appealing to authority, it bears true in her case (and I imagine some others as well).

That being said, I do agree that gaining the perspective of other viewpoints -especially from those who have lived experience- is a good thing.

 

[wingsandsword]

That is very much the catch-22.

I've seen people on Twitter ask why there are so few afrocentric campaign settings for D&D. The harsh answer is "because there are so few people of African decent working in gaming."

Which leads to the easy fix of hiring more People of Colour for gaming positions and supporting the ones in the industry.

I'd point out that, thanks to the Open Gaming License, for almost the last 20 years virtually anyone can create a campaign setting for D&D and publish it.

If there was a demand for it, you'd think people would be making it.

If someone is really that upset about a lack of African-themed D&D settings, and they thought there was a serious demand for them, they could write them and publish them themselves, and if it succeeds, then everyone wins.

Generally speaking, the more-or-less Eurocentric, quasi-Medieval Tolkien-derived fantasy that is widely associated with D&D is what D&D players generally want. While there are certainly settings that don't fit that mold, including some popular official settings, that as a baseline exists because that's what fans tend to want.

 

[Argyle King]

I think the TV show The last kingdom can give some hint about medieval era.
But for DnD inspiration it is missing some elements:
No Magnificent castle
No large library
No commercial guild and wide commercial supply.
no organized crime, no assassin guild
no plate armor
no big inn
in fact compare to most DnD setting, medieval world look boring and lackluster.

Last Kingdom is an interesting example because it showcases a variety of cultures. "European" isn't nearly as monolithic as is commonly imagined. From a contemporary perspective it is, but that's (coincidentally enough) because cultures have blended and have borrowed from each other over time. A large part of Uhtred's story revolves around being stuck between two cultures: the one into which he was born, and the one in which he was raised.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

From an emotional standpoint, my gut reaction is to agree. However, I then consider what the professor I had at college for AA Literature looked like. She was (and continues to be) far more educated in the nuances of the subject than either myself or my classmates at the time. While I'm wary of the fallacy of appealing to authority, it bears true in her case (and I imagine some others as well).

That being said, I do agree that gaining the perspective of other viewpoints -especially from those who have lived experience- is a good thing.

Also, i cant overstate this, there are nations whos academics know less about their nation's history than certain other nation's academics know about it.

So no. I would NEVER actively favor person A of culture A automatically when they have roughly equal educational level on paper.

The idea that this is a good way to diversity thought stand up about as good as a single square of tissue paper holds up in a monsoon.

 

[Jester David]

Again, depending on someone's racial characteristics, even ancestry, to either give authority or remove authority without considering the essential work in question? Highly problematic.

This is a straw man.

Yes, of course just being black shouldn't confer the position of being able to write gaming material for Africa as if you that person were a member of that culture. That goes without saying. Just like being a white American doesn't confer the ability to authoritatively write about Germany or Russia.
Knowledge of the culture is of course a requirement. Just like the ability to write in complete sentences or design game mechanics.

Basic competency and knowledge is assumed.

 

[Jester David]

I'd point out that, thanks to the Open Gaming License, for almost the last 20 years virtually anyone can create a campaign setting for D&D and publish it.

If there was a demand for it, you'd think people would be making it.

If someone is really that upset about a lack of African-themed D&D settings, and they thought there was a serious demand for them, they could write them and publish them themselves, and if it succeeds, then everyone wins.

Generally speaking, the more-or-less Eurocentric, quasi-Medieval Tolkien-derived fantasy that is widely associated with D&D is what D&D players generally want. While there are certainly settings that don't fit that mold, including some popular official settings, that as a baseline exists because that's what fans tend to want.

There are few people of colour playing RPGs.
So there are few products prominently featuring PoC.
So there's less to attract PoC to RPGs and make them feel welcome.
So there's few PoC playing RPGs.

Rinse and repeat

 

[Jester David]

From an emotional standpoint, my gut reaction is to agree. However, I then consider what the professor I had at college for AA Literature looked like. She was (and continues to be) far more educated in the nuances of the subject than either myself or my classmates at the time. While I'm wary of the fallacy of appealing to authority, it bears true in her case (and I imagine some others as well).

That being said, I do agree that gaining the perspective of other viewpoints -especially from those who have lived experience- is a good thing.

There are always exceptions.

But the worst case scenario... the absolute WORST... is that you hire someone less knowledgeable of the culture who has to do research before writing the book.
Only if you hired a person of colour for that job instead of a white person you still have a more diverse writing pool.
And that's still not a bad thing.

 

[Minigiant]

I'd point out that, thanks to the Open Gaming License, for almost the last 20 years virtually anyone can create a campaign setting for D&D and publish it.

If there was a demand for it, you'd think people would be making it.

If someone is really that upset about a lack of African-themed D&D settings, and they thought there was a serious demand for them, they could write them and publish them themselves, and if it succeeds, then everyone wins.

Generally speaking, the more-or-less Eurocentric, quasi-Medieval Tolkien-derived fantasy that is widely associated with D&D is what D&D players generally want. While there are certainly settings that don't fit that mold, including some popular official settings, that as a baseline exists because that's what fans tend to want.

That's a bad assumption.

The last 10 years has shown that the lack of someone creating or pushing a product does not constitute a lack of demand. There have been a lot of ideas that were though unprofitable pushed for decades that have suddenly made tons of money when the folk with the resources take the gamble.

The explosion of 5e's popularity will likely bring a lot of minorities into D&D and the demand for content from other cultures will likely come.

Like Games Workshop is learning. if you actually and earnestly try to broaden your base, you might be able to have more wallets to suck dry.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Why are we still stuck in this era?

I mean, not that I’ve ever seen a fantasy work that accurately portrayed the Middle Ages, regular cleaning/bathing rituals, advanced is art, music, and sciences, and all, but still, why? What is so interesting about it? There are most of 20k years to draw upon for roleplaying inspiration before the advent of the cannon, across the globe.

What is so interesting about the (very much pseudo) medieval tableaux that keeps the community stuck at that well?

There are lots of games that take place outside Medieval Europe. Just not D&D.

Here are some popular games that are NOT set in Medieval Europe. They are all relatively popular in our hobby, but not the big boy (D&D).
Call of Cthulhu
Deadlands (problematic in another way just due to Wild West)
Shadowrun
Star Trek
Star Wars
Traveller
Metamorphosis Alpha
Gamma World
etc etc

Ah, I see you did say "fantasy work." Never mind then. Based on the #orcs twitter debacle, I'll keep my opinions to myself on this one.

 

[Nellisir]

I'm just going to say that I've found assertions that authors or publishers should get someone from "X" culture to sign off on a fantasy representation of "X" culture very rarely reflect a realistic goal, or a realistic understanding of how many cultures work. I'm an American, but I'm not expert on Southern culture, or California culture, or Midwest culture. Hell, I moved to upstate NY and thought the people there were weird.

My wife is a person of color, as I understand the term (I doubt she'd apply it to herself). Raised in a non-american country. Her culture (a smaller one that hasn't significantly appeared in a TSR handbook) is rife with prejudices and biases. Rural vs urban. North vs south. East vs west. This naturalized group vs that naturalized group vs another naturalized group vs the indigenous people, who themselves invaded 500 years ago and displaced a previous group. Who's the "expert"? On what? What are their biases?

I'm not saying don't do it, but it's not necessarily as simple as "just find someone versed in the culture".