BryonD
Hero
and this is why the above was very relevant... if you like something and can say X Y and Z you will never understand people who claim X Y and Z are not there... and on the flip side if you hate something (notice the word hate is spelled out here) because X Y and Z aren't in it then no one will ever convince you that they were there and you missed it.
You want examples, if 4E fans accepted that roles felt different to a lot of people in 4E than they do in other editions, then this whole 100+ page thread would not exist.
But, lets try to cut through all of this. You claim that both sides are doing the same thing. Lets put it to the test.
As I have said many times before, it is clear to me that 4E is a grand slam as far as delivering the game style that many people want. Anyone who says that liking 4E is a bad or wrong thing is quite foolish.
At the same time, 4E feels different than other editions in a lot of ways to a lot of people. The ways roles present themselves in 4E is one of these things. To other people, (not you) this is a big deal. To other people (not you) it negatively impacts the value of the game experience.
Do you accept this opinion?
Please show me that you a doing what you want others to do an respecting differences of opinion.
As to "H4ter", I was called that MANY MANY times. I'll agree that the use of that particular term has died off since 4E went away. But in this very thread Hussar claimed that I my preference for healing was conveniently developed to support being anti-4E and pro-3E. That mentality is downright bizarre to think that someone would, for no good reason, hate one system and then start claiming their preferences in specific matters based on supporting that agenda, rather than assuming that someone likes what they like and then picks a system that supports it. It is completely consistent with the old "if you don't like 4E you are a bad person looking to bring everyone else down" theme. Even you just summed up the anti-4E side as "everything about 4e sucked". Not exactly a "let's talk this through" attitude you are displaying. This thread has maintained the "you either like 4E or you are mean" vibe.
And if you want to claim people who don't like 4E "the vocal minority" so be it. But I'mm not clear why YOU bring up the people making these complaints and when I respond to you about them you turn around and act like they are not significant. I mean, either way works for me, but if they are important enough for you to bring up, you shouldn't blow them off when someone replies.
But, again, bottom line, please show me that you respect differing opinions. Please prove me wrong and agree that it is ok to find the feel of roles in 4E different in a not-positive way, just as it is ok to find the many differences in 4E to be improvements.