What do we call One D&D?

Which Acronym?


3.x lacked the modular system design at the core of 5E. It is very easy to unplug rule elements and replace them without disruption.
5E isn't modularly designed.

It was initially proposed that it would be, but that wasn't actually followed through. So this isn't the case. It has modular elements (like Feats), but we're not talking about a system like FUZION where it's fundamentally modular.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
LOL. Let's see man, I just don't see it happening. The changes in this one thing alone are about as big as all the "stealth releases" imho.
This is the big test, though: per Crawford in the video, the further tests are going to be much smaller and more focused (probably mainly Classes, honestly, though he did say we would see more Feats).
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
5E isn't modularly designed.

It was initially proposed that it would be, but that wasn't actually followed through. So this isn't the case. It has modular elements (like Feats), but we're not talking about a system like FUZION where it's fundamentally modular.
It is modular in that it is made up of elements that can plug in or out of the game. What they didn't deliver on was delivering a huge variety of modules, like 4E style material. They could have, but they didn't. You can remove the Race rules and replace them, and it doesn't break classes or Skills. That's modularity.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Based on the UA, they might include those conversion documents in the PHB and DMG directly, as sidebars.

Having many of them scattered throughout feels really inelegant to me (with it getting worse as time goes on). I can see the one about only getting 1st level ASIs from one source though.

Having them put something up front (like B/X did about Basic) seems good to me.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
3.x lacked the modular system design at the core of 5E. It is very easy to unplug rule elements and replace them without disruption.
I disagree. 5e is modular only in that it has optional rules in the DMG that you can use. This is no different from the 3.5 UA that was released with options. And had 3e had a UA, there would have been options for that as well. Yet 3.5 wasn't compatible with 3e.

I'm not going to believe WotC on the compatibility issue until I see the final product and can assess myself. They failed to deliver on this promise once already.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I disagree. 5e is modular only in that it has optional rules in the DMG that you can use. This is no different from the 3.5 UA that was released with options. And had 3e had a UA, there would have been options for that as well. Yet 3.5 wasn't compatible with 3e.

I'm not going to believe WotC on the compatibility issue until I see the final product and can assess myself. They failed to deliver on this promise once already.
The modularity is in the ability of the system math to allow for elements to be replaced or added. Even Adventure modules in the game have added entire rules systems handily.
 


You can remove the Race rules and replace them, and it doesn't break classes or Skills. That's modularity.
Yeah, but I think in analysis of the proposed 5E rules change we're already seeing breakdowns to modularity. For example, the change to Grappling rules means literally everything you can do to be good at Grappling right now, including class features seemingly designed for that (Barbarian STR check Advantage, for example) no longer function to do that. To fix this, they'd need to change the Barbarian to add say, applying Disadvantage to saves to break his Grapples during Rage.

That's showing how the combat rules in D&D are not modular. You can't change them without changing class rules.
Even Adventure modules in the game have added entire rules systems handily.
This also happened in 2E, 3E, and 4E note. Do you need specific examples? 4E is particularly easy if so, because I refer you to my favourite 4E adventure, Blood Money by Logan Bonner.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Yeah, but I think in analysis of the proposed 5E rules change we're already seeing breakdowns to modularity. For example, the change to Grappling rules means literally everything you can do to be good at Grappling right now, including class features seemingly designed for that (Barbarian STR check Advantage, for example) no longer function to do that. To fix this, they'd need to change the Barbarian to add say, applying Disadvantage to saves to break his Grapples during Rage.

That's showing how the combat rules in D&D are not modular. You can't change them without changing class rules.

This also happened in 2E, 3E, and 4E note. Do you need specific examples? 4E is particularly easy if so, because I refer you to my favourite 4E adventure, Blood Money by Logan Bonner.
Well, this is the test where they are going to measure if people want those changes. If they don't, roll 'em back. Either way, the Class redesigns can be based off of that, and they're already including "conversion documents" in sidebars.
 

Well, this is the test where they are going to measure if people want those changes. If they don't, roll 'em back. Either way, the Class redesigns can be based off of that, and they're already including "conversion documents" in sidebars.
Sure, but regardless of the ultimate fate of the grappling changes, my point re: modularity of the combat system stands. It's not modular. You cannot change or replace it without re-working classes.
 

Stormonu

Legend
If I can't buy future supplements or adventures without doing a bunch of conversions, I'll be calling it THE END.

For now, I'm sticking with 6E because like 1E -> 2E, it looks like it is going to be a consolidation + update with all-new "Core" books, but you can still "grandfather" what you want into it.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
If I can't buy future supplements or adventures without doing a bunch of conversions, I'll be calling it THE END.

For now, I'm sticking with 6E because like 1E -> 2E, it looks like it is going to be a consolidation + update with all-new "Core" books, but you can still "grandfather" what you want into it.
Yeah, that does seem to be one of their central design goals.
 

dave2008

Legend
I feel like this is not going to be what you are saying 2024 lol.
Not likely me personally, buy maybe others. All books are a kit-of-parts for out home game. So we will use whatever we want from any 5e book. I mean, I seriously doubt the 2024 books will depart as much as LevelUp did from 2014 5e, but I still use my LevelUp books right along side of my 2014 books.
 




Aldarc

Legend
3.x lacked the modular system design at the core of 5E. It is very easy to unplug rule elements and replace them without disruption.
You say that, but PF1 made a fair number of modular design changes to the 3e engine for how many years? Pretty impressive for a game built on broken math and busted classes.

It is modular in that it is made up of elements that can plug in or out of the game. What they didn't deliver on was delivering a huge variety of modules, like 4E style material. They could have, but they didn't. You can remove the Race rules and replace them, and it doesn't break classes or Skills. That's modularity.
I'm not sure how this doesn't equally apply to 3e?
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
You say that, but PF1 made a fair number of modular design changes to the 3e engine for how many years? Pretty impressive for a game built on broken math and busted classes.


I'm not sure how this doesn't equally apply to 3e?
Well, sure, obviously, we did it. But they didn't design 3E with that in mind. 5E, they did from the start.
 

Retreater

Legend
Currently, I'm referring to it as "6th edition." If it proves to be mostly backwards compatible but replacing the existing books, I'll call it 5.5.
If it ends up being something that can be added as options (like Essentials was to 4e), then I'll find something else (maybe "NewCore?")
 

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