What Do You Think Of As "Modern TTRPG Mechanics"?

[Aldarc]

Exactly. The Forge and the OSR were both branches that were in direct repudiation of Hickman-style storytelling that dominated in the ‘90s.

In some respects, they also exist in reaction to 3e D&D, and how that game was commonly being played in praxis: i.e., mechanics first ("I roll Perception," "I use Diplomacy on the guard."). For example, I believe that Vincent Baker had 3e D&D in mind when designing how Moves worked. Likewise, the OSR was having a similar dicussion about fiction-first approaches in response to the common 3e praxis of mechanics-first approaches to skills.

There’s significant overlap in the goals of these movements… and a lot of it can be summed up as demanding more principled GMing.

I debated whether or not to add "Explicit Play Principles" to my list of contemporary approaches to TTRPG mechanics. As I am required to say, these things were there previously, but I think a lot of contemporary TTRPGs tend to be more explicit, up front, and opinionated about the principles and best practices for GMs and players. Doesn't mean it's present in all contemporary games, but there has definitely been a rise in including them.

What are the play principles for players or GMs in 5e D&D?* I don't know. But I can tell you the play principles of GMs and players in a variety of "narrative games" (e.g., PbtA, FitD, Daggerheart, Fabula Ultima, etc.) and OSR/NuSR games (e.g., Shadowdark, Cairn, Knave, etc.).

* For those sensitive to me criticizing just 5e D&D, I will also fully admit that Dragonbane - a game that I highly enjoy - is in the same boat. Dragonbane is an unopinionated game, and I can't recall Free League talking about the play principles or best practices GMs and players should adopt for this game. I wish these principles and best practices were there in Dragonbane too.

 

[pemerton]

Nope. You are 100% wrong. there is no D&D rule whatsoever that says "A failed search roll created a net new encounter.

I never said there was. I know the (Gygaxian) AD&D rules pretty well.

What I said, which you quoted, is this:

There is a clear process in classic D&D: the GM maps and keys a dungeon; the movement of the PCs through the dungeon is tracked on the map; what they see/hear/experience is narrated by the GM based on the key, with doors playing an especially important role in this respect. Whether one wants to call those processes of tracking movement on the map and having reference to the key as "mechanics" seems secondary; but they do mean that the outcomes of the players' declared actions are not determined by GM fiat at the moment of resolution.

In D&D, GURPS, OSR = the GM places a problem, and the players roll various tasks to address that problem. So if there is a dungeon of monsters, then the players roll to find the monsters. Pass they do, fail they dont.

In classic D&D, the players aren't rolling to find monsters. They are declaring actions in order to learn the map and the key, with the ultimate goal of obtaining XP from treasure. Some of those actions are resolved via dice rolls. Some are resolved via (what Ron Edwards, following Jonathan Tweet) calls drama.

Contra what you posted, it is not true that "it was the GM who put those there, so they don't even truly exist until the GM says they do".

There is no actual statement in D&D and GURPS , there is not actual mechanical rule, that says "you rolled to search and time passed and thus GM must roll for an encounter."

There is such a rule in classic D&D. I haven't got my copy of Moldvay Basic ready to hand. But in Gygax's DMG, it is found in Appendix C (p 190): "Check for encounters every three turns".

 

[pemerton]

The Con-18 Elf, for example. The PCs in-character might wonder how he got so starchy, and eventually discover that he gained 3 points of Con in his youth by stumbling on to and reading the Book of Toughy-Tough-Toughness. This might (as in, probably would!) spur the PCs to ask if said Book still exists and maybe send them in search of it, or what became of it, and boom: not only do you now have a bit more setting lore, you might even get an adventure or two out of it!

If the NPC Elf can stumble over this book in his youth, why can't the PCs? Why are only PCs obliged to adventure in order to find it?

 

[Lanefan]

If the NPC Elf can stumble over this book in his youth, why can't the PCs? Why are only PCs obliged to adventure in order to find it?

Maybe the NPC Elf was adventuring at the time...

Sometimes as DM I'll throw in seemingly-random items for parties to (maybe) find while adventuring, unrelated to the current adventure or mission, as potential seeds for later investigation or further adventures*. A long-thought-lost book of ancient and possibly world-changing lore casually thrown in a pile of junk in a corner somewhere. A filthy sodden tapestry rolled up in a basement that when cleaned up and hung holds valuable clues or information about people or events the party are otherwise unaware of. Things like that.

If the party doesn't find the item, or does but doesn't follow up, it's no skin off my nose; but if they both find it and follow up on it then that gives me something to run.

* - the classic literary example of this idea, of course, is Bilbo stumbling on to the One Ring while on what seemed at the time to be a completely unrelated mission; and would have been had Gandalf not later followed up on what the Ring represented.

 

[aramis erak]

I haven't read Daggerheart, but I am inferring that experiences in Daggerheart are similar to the backgrounds in 13th Age: free descriptors that play a similar role, in resolution, to skill bonuses in 3E and onwards D&D. Have I got that right?

Mostly; they're expensive to invoke, like fate Aspects, but without the negative use and ability to earn the metacurrency in RAW.

Considering that literally every "modern" game I've seen come out this year has been explicit about the separation between PC and NPC design I think we can say that's a core characteristic. Even 5e.24 did this to a degree.

D&D 5.0 used template NPCs, too. Technically, so also did AD&D and BX/BECMI/BBB+RC.
But, yeah, I see that, too. but my buying/reading is down this year.
The One Ring, Daggerheart, all the 2d20 games...

There are some noteworthy exceptions: the PCs in Year Zero are short enough that they don't need template NPCs to be specifically called out as different.
The typical YZE character has 4 attributes, 12 or 16 skills in the system (Blade Runner is odd by having 13), and their gear, plus sometimes HP, and a couple with a Stress point. Plus some talents. Not much need to have template NPCs because a full up NPC isn't much space.

 

[Weiley31]

I can only have a say in this topic when I think of Mechanics, and as somebody already mentioned before, Advantage/Disadvantage, Metacurrencies, and Resource Dice are definitely modern mechanics. Especially when compared the early editions of DND and other old school TTRPGs back in the day.

But yeah, Narrative Play is another one. Would the Weird Dice Chains of DCC count as another? Or is that an example of taking an old school aspect and flipping it in a modern way?

 

[aramis erak]

The claim that parity between NPC and PC creation is somehow “old school” just seems revisionist to me.

Classic Traveller intends NPCs to be generated as PCs. That's 1977. That's pretty old school...

NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS

Sometimes (often) players will encounter people not manipulated by an actual player. They may be thugs or assailants. They may be potential hirelings or employers. In any case, their skills and abilities should be determined using the character generation procedure, and noted for the effects they may have on play.

For example, a starship captain may be looking for a crew for his ship, in which case, the referee would generate characters until one occurs with the required skill (such as navigation, medical, etc.). Generally, the first appropriate character to be generated would present himself for employment, and if not accepted or considered suitable, an appropriate delay would occur before another presents himself. As an alternative, the referee might simply generate a character and assign him the required skill, plus perhaps 1 or 2 more.

Similarly, the characteristics of thugs or brigands menacing players, or of people presenting themselves for hire may be determined and recorded for use when necessary.

Supplement 1: 1001 Characters (1979) most of whom were computer generated (on an apple II). I think it's the start of the trend of full stats for NPCs, because the physicals are how damage is taken.
After Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium came out, with another few hundred more, many GM's just used them as template NPCs... but those were 1979...

It’s a perfectly fine preference… but I don’t think it’s in any way essential to or emblematic of old school approaches to RPGs.

It's rather popular in the 1980's, tho'... Palladium with NPCs having full class and level stats, especially in Robotech and TMNT - tho' not a few used them as PCs... If 1984 and earlier are "old school" it's part of it, just not
Ironically, MegaTraveller ('87) provides a quick NPC generation option (in the Ref's Manual)... not a great one, but it was nice and quick; it still presumes a full set of stats, but just a faster way
Traveller TNE (93) gives a format for quick NPCs, but doesn't give a library of them...

Whether the early 80's count as old school or not is a contentious issue for many. Some place old school ending at 1981, with the release of Moldvay; others at '86 for AD&D 2, others still at 1984... Traveller players tend to go with 1980... the release of High Guard, 2nd edition (HG-80)... or 81, when the adventures and supplements all seemed to assume using HG-80...

One of the things that drove me crazy about 3e was that NPCs required as much prep as PCs. It was exhausting.

One of the blessings of running 3E as a dungeon penetration wargame is using almost exclusively monsters instead of proper NPCs...

 

[Weiley31]

Maybe the NPC Elf was adventuring at the time...

I mean, how old is the Elf NPC? Their "youth" might have been AGES ago so ya, this tracks.

As DM I'll allow it.