• COMING SOON! -- Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition! Level up your 5E game! The standalone advanced 5E tabletop RPG adds depth and diversity to the game you love!
log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E What does 5E do well?

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
No, it's the lack of an exploration gameplay loop (I'm not counting the entirely optional school interludes, much ad I love them, they are entirely skiable to the core game). Tactical grid combat obviously doesn't mean a game isn't an RPG, but when the grid combats are the game, with everything else being an elaboration of building the army for the preset wargame scenarios...that's a wargame. This is way more clear with earlier entries in the series, that usually lacked many of the roleplaying side game elements in Three Houses.
I don't see exploration gameplay as being necessary to define an RPG, so that's probably where we are differing.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Honestly, at least half the gameplay loop is finding your favorite character's lost items and having tea parties so they can become your waifu at the end of the game. :)

I would disagree with the notion that having a grid and turn-based combat system suddenly makes a RPG into a not-RPG. You're really only controlling 10-11 characters at a time, not armies. (Although I suppose the gambit system pushes against that a bit.)
And also to add, I put an absurd number of hours into Three Houses, and I love it. It was my first Fire Emblrm (not counting Fire Emblem Warriors, which is also not an RPG for similar reasons), so the nature of the core wargame wasn't super clear to me, though it felt weird for an "RPG," until I played older entries that were straight wargames.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't see exploration gameplay as being necessary to define an RPG, so that's probably where we are differing.
In the context of a computer simulation, defining how an "RPG" is a "role-playing game" is odd. Whe I play Super Mario Broa., I am playing a role in a game, and even if I play a definite consensus RPG like Mass Effect or Skyrim, I am not inhabiting a role the same way as with a TTRPG. This is increased on the case of Fire Emblem, since a wargame with character plot elements is literally how D&D started. I'll point again to Zelda as the mirror example, since most people comfortably don't consider it an RPG, but it participates in RPG gameplay about as much as Fire Emblem, but from the opposite direction.
 




Not in the version I played since I played the original version. Oh, and Han shot first!
Han shot first - but the original unpatched Mass Effect ending was a beta. And needing both a patch and two pieces of DLC (From the Ashes as day 1 DLC being especially skeevy) for the plot to work was just bad.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Han shot first - but the original unpatched Mass Effect ending was a beta. And needing both a patch and two pieces of DLC (From the Ashes as day 1 DLC being especially skeevy) for the plot to work was just bad.
Did you mean to say the original ending was "bad" instead of "beta"? :cautious:
 

Did you mean to say the original ending was "bad" instead of "beta"? :cautious:
I meant a beta in the software sense; it was a draft that was just about functional but they clearly hadn't actually finished writing it and what was there was what should have been a placeholder because they rushed the game out in a year and a half. Six more months and that could and should have been on the greatest games of all time list but they didn't get that.
 

Xeviat

Hero
All this "4E fights took forever" talk is strange to me, because fights in D&D have always taken a long time for my group, especially at higher levels. Spells, tactics, multiple monsters, maps. We rarely have "easy" or "medium" fights because we like the challenge of the harder fights.

The last boss fight we did in my 5E game took 12 rounds, and two of the enemies got away. There were 3 leveled NPCs and 2 hill giants, and the party of 5 had 9 NPCs on their side helping. Big climax of a city siege.

The dragon fight earlier took 6 rounds, and the cleric's turn often takes a while (the warlock is faster), and the fighter can even take a bit if he's using his superiority dice that round.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
All this "4E fights took forever" talk is strange to me, because fights in D&D have always taken a long time for my group, especially at higher levels. Spells, tactics, multiple monsters, maps. We rarely have "easy" or "medium" fights because we like the challenge of the harder fights.

The last boss fight we did in my 5E game took 12 rounds, and two of the enemies got away. There were 3 leveled NPCs and 2 hill giants, and the party of 5 had 9 NPCs on their side helping. Big climax of a city siege.

The dragon fight earlier took 6 rounds, and the cleric's turn often takes a while (the warlock is faster), and the fighter can even take a bit if he's using his superiority dice that round.
Our fights rarely lasted 3 full rounds in 3.x, so 4E felt like it was forcing us to fight longer.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
The longest battles I've ever had were in 3.5E/Pathfinder, where it was common for a party of 5th level characters to spend over an hour fighting a pair of wyverns. And it only got worse at higher levels; I remember when everyone was 9th level we spent an entire gaming session on a single battle...and it wasn't even a "boss' encounter.

Battles in 5th edition are much faster, with our party of 10th level characters needing about 30 minutes to beat up a trio of vrocks. This is about the same amount of time that battles took us in the old days of the B/X edition...and that's "doing it well" in my opinion.
 


Sithlord

Adventurer
The longest battles I have is 20 minutes for a big encounter. But I give players 6-10 seconds on their turn to decide what to do or they lose their turn. I take that back when I had 12 or more PC’s in the 90s it could take longer. And I never allow a book to be referenced during combat.
 

I DM'd Earthdawn for a few years, using the Companion (meaning we had 15 circles) and set in Barsaive. There are many elements of the Earthdawn design that I valued: thread magic, blood magic, karma, the passions. I loved the setting (the artwork is some of my favourite in RPG, as an aside). Windlings were a mixed blessing. Tskrang! I'd put Earthdawn as a solid competitor, albeit with 5e "clearly better" than Earthdawn (if one has to be).

I would not DM Earthdawn again or seek to play in a campaign. On the other hand, I would recommend it to others.
This is a great description for this game. We played the first edition (I am not sure if there are others), and that is exactly how we felt. Thank you for finally putting into words something I could not.
 

Jacob Lewis

Ye Olde GM
4th Edition placed emphasis and attention at the encounter level of the game. Every combat was designed as the centerpiece of a session, which meant you spent a lot of time on a singular instance of the game.

5th Edition, on the other hand, pulls back the lens and puts the focus on the bigger picture (i.e. the campaign). Combat encounters are meant to be done quickly to let the story (the campaign) progress forward.

That is my take, anyway.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
4th Edition placed emphasis and attention at the encounter level of the game. Every combat was designed as the centerpiece of a session, which meant you spent a lot of time on a singular instance of the game.

5th Edition, on the other hand, pulls back the lens and puts the focus on the bigger picture (i.e. the campaign). Combat encounters are meant to be done quickly to let the story (the campaign) progress forward.

That is my take, anyway.
Yeah, that's about right.
 


Stalker0

Legend
4th Edition placed emphasis and attention at the encounter level of the game. Every combat was designed as the centerpiece of a session, which meant you spent a lot of time on a singular instance of the game.

5th Edition, on the other hand, pulls back the lens and puts the focus on the bigger picture (i.e. the campaign). Combat encounters are meant to be done quickly to let the story (the campaign) progress forward.

That is my take, anyway.
Maybe that is why I enjoyed 4es combat, as my group often will do only a few combats, so would prefer each one feeling strong….as opposed to more combats with lower stakes.
 

Scutisorex

Explorer

Attachments

  • Bootsy.jpg
    Bootsy.jpg
    108.6 KB · Views: 29

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top