What exactly is a Grognard?

[ejja_1]

The way I always understood it was that it refered to an "old soldier". Or someone who has been playing the game for a long time. It is usually presented in the context of the person denoting themselves as a long time player with a greater amount of experience in gaming than your average player. Sometimes this is used to confer an air of superiority as in, "Im from the old school, so I know whats best." But not in all cases.

 

[Psion]

On ENWorld:

1) Someone who started rpging in the early days of the hobby. I'm a purist in that I think it has to be the 70s,

In before the lock.

2) A fan of a previous edition of an rpg, usually D&D. You see quite a few references to 3e grognards but there's an awareness that it's a strange usage as 3e only became a previous edition very recently.

Though rare, do 2e fans who never went on to 3e call themselves grognards?

 

[Jackelope King]

I would define grognard as anyone who is conservative about gaming in a non-political sense. That is, back in the good ole days, things were better, and now things are not. It doesn't matter how long you've been playing, people can adopt this attitude almost immediately in order to fit in. Grognard is an attitude that states, "the old ways are better." The attitude often includes, "and you should recognize why."

This seems to fit pretty well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Eh, from what I've seen on the hundreds of 4E/3.5E war threads, grognard is pretty much used as a shorthand for "someone who disagrees with me" or in place of one of the many naughty words that would offend Eric's grandmother.

This only applies if the person called grognard also expresses a dislike for 4E (or any newer edition). The "maturity", so to speak, is important.

I can't say something like: "Maybe I am a grognard, but I don't think OD&D is a good game and I would never play it!"



The general context is that it's an "older" gamer who probably started role-playing or D&D before its 4E (and liked it ).

 

[Derren]

"Grognard" was mainly used as a degratory term around the time 4E previews appeared by "early adopters" to label everyone who thought the stuff showed in the preview was not better than what existed in one of the previous D&D editions as old and outdated.

 

[Weregrognard]

I think there's a few things in common for RPG grognards, at least in its negative connotation:

- 30+ years in age

- Probably started roleplaying from the beginning and/or up to 2nd edition AD&D (IMO 3e is still within the last decade, though that won't be the case for much longer).

- Does not enjoy and/or is not willing to try any edition of an RPG that was released after their favorite edition, especially the most current one.

- Is derisive and critical of the gaming tastes of those younger than himself, or anyone who doesn't share the same gaming tastes, for that matter.

- Is vocal about it.

 

[SavageRobby]

I would define grognard as anyone who is conservative about gaming in a non-political sense. That is, back in the good ole days, things were better, and now things are not. It doesn't matter how long you've been playing, people can adopt this attitude almost immediately in order to fit in. Grognard is an attitude that states, "the old ways are better." The attitude often includes, "and you should recognize why."

In an RPG sense, I don't fully agree with this. I see (in others and in myself) this conservatism directly in relation to D&D, but not necessarily other places. Maybe thats just me - but I see a lot of that around here.

I often think of myself as as a grognard. I was playing the late 70s (B/E and AD&D - sadly, I missed the initial OD&D boat), and I turn 40 this year. I freely admit that I like my D&D old school, that my Fiend Folio is sitting next to me as I type (I had to look up the spelling of Svirfneblin earlier - 25 years later and I still can't remember), that Unearthed Arcana was the last "good" D&D rules hardback (and even that is somewhat sketchy), that I don't like Dragonborn and Tiefling because of my old-school proclivities, and heck, I still think a unified XP chart is stupid.

... But thats the D&D side. At the same time, my group plays mainly Savage Worlds (and has since I pushed us to switch us over from 3x - which I didn't like - 4-5 years back). I loved Over the Edge, and wish I could find someone to run a game of here. I really like a lot of elements from Burning Wheel and I'm considering running a Jihad (read: Dune) campaign. I dig the Paizo APs and think their campaign world and fluff materials are awesome - but I don't know much about the Pathfinder RPG, and have zero inclination to found out about it.


So, I dunno. I've always thought of grognard-ism as a facet of D&D edition loyalty/game-style mentality. But like everyone else, thats probably just my own definition.

 

[tomBitonti]

I think there's a few things in common for RPG grognards, at least in its negative connotation:

- 30+ years in age

- Probably started roleplaying from the beginning and/or up to 2nd edition AD&D (IMO 3e is still within the last decade, though that won't be the case for much longer).

- Does not enjoy and/or is not willing to try any edition of an RPG that was released after their favorite edition, especially the most current one.

- Is derisive and critical of the gaming tastes of those younger than himself, or anyone who doesn't share the same gaming tastes, for that matter.

- Is vocal about it.

Since I describe myself as a grognard, I agree with the first two points, and am offended by the rest. To me, grognard means "Old Timer", or one who has been playing RPG's for a long time. (I started with 1st editioin in about 1980.) Can we move this thread forward without being derisive?

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

There are a heck of a lot of them, they just dont' hang out on enworld.

The grognards were the "old" guys in the game shop complaining about their hobby being overrun by RPGers.

They were, though I suspect not these days.

A trip to a major newsagents at the weekend revealed 4 different wargaming magazines (not including White Dwarf) and zero RPG magazines.

I do miss, printed magazines, am I a grognard for that?

 

[Papa-DRB]

II mean, I get the gist of it and would probably categorize myself as such (being 30+, starting gaming during 1ed). And I know that the original definition is related to wargaming and not RPGs, but general usage has become much broader. So is there an agreed upon definition? And is there a sharp line or is it more a matter of degree? For example, is one a Grognard only if they started playing before the advent of World of Darkness and/or 2ed AD&D? Or is it an age thing, born in the 70s or earlier?

I don't like the definition of pre-1ed AD&D as that cuts the numbers of Authentic Grognards (AGs) down to probably less than 1% of the gaming population. So I'm thinking a good definition is one who started playing before 2ed AD&D came out. Thoughts?

In the 'historical' sense, I copied the original entry from wikipedia when they announced it was being discontinued.

http://home.hvc.rr.com/davidstuff/Grognard.html

I consider myself the 1st definition. Been with my company for 33+ years so I fit right in with the first definition. The other definitions are just a bonus.

-- david
Papa.DRB