What exactly is a Grognard?

[diaglo]

And WWII is far and away the most popular era for wargames, followed by the American Civil War.

although, i do napoleanics.

 

[McBard]

Here's something: since a gaming grognard seems to be most narrowly defined as someone who played wargames in the 70s before D&D (and RPGs), and since 4E is more of a wargame than any recent version of D&D (perhaps even more so than proto-D&D Chainmail), then perhaps there CAN be 4E grognards as well. <ducks> You know: 4E has finally stripped that pesky "RP" out of pushing miniatures around a table.

No, seriously, maybe that's what explains ardoughter (self-described 40-45 year old, see post above) and his 14-year old nephew both loving 4E. The circle is complete.

 

[Orius]

i did not serve with napolean in his artillery. but i did play wargames with him and his men.

This comment made me laugh so much, I might just sig it.

 

[rounser]

Many people call themselves such terms and mean it more self-mockingly

Still doesn't mean it's not a perjorative. Plenty of perjoratives are used ironically by the group that it targets, to defuse the attacker's favourite words and attacks by the target group beginning to own them themselves.

Obvious examples are some uses of the n-word, or jewish comedians telling anti-semetic jokes. They can do it because they're on the team, part of the gang, everyone's friends here.

When used in a non-ironic fashion, against someone else in an attempt to attack them, when you're not "one of the gang", it's most definitely a perjorative. (And before anyone leaps to conclusions, I'm not saying that "grognard" comes anywhere remotely near the n-word in terms of being a perjorative - the example was just raised for illustration.)

 

[Mark]

Still doesn't mean it's not a perjorative. Plenty of perjoratives are used ironically by the group that it targets, to defuse the attacker's favourite words and attacks by the target group beginning to own them themselves.

Obvious examples are some uses of the n-word, or jewish comedians telling anti-semetic jokes. They can do it because they're on the team, part of the gang, everyone's friends here.

When used in a non-ironic fashion, against someone else in an attempt to attack them, when you're not "one of the gang", it's most definitely a perjorative. (And before anyone leaps to conclusions, I'm not saying that "grognard" comes anywhere remotely near the n-word in terms of being a perjorative - the example was just raised for illustration.)

It may not be possible to count the ways in which this post is wrong. It is wrong in concept and execution. It starts off wrong, perhaps even before the thread was encountered, and will continue to careen in very wrong ways throughout the ages to come. This post is a monument to wrongness. All shall read it and despair.

 

[rounser]

All shall read it and despair.

Guh?

If you're annoyed that I even mentioned the n-word and anti-semetism in any relation to this discussion, then you're on your own there. If I can't illustrate a point using examples when I've even put in disclaimers saying I don't relate them in any way to what's being discussed except as independent examples, then you've gone politically correct-mad.

I was talking about a concept of human psychology, and I want to make it very, very clear that I was NOT intending to make a comparison between the spectre of racism and geeks calling other geeks idiots. I even said so in that post. Common sense says so, give me some credit!

Did you even read my post, or are you just trying to be clever? Come on Mark, I want an answer.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Here's something: since a gaming grognard seems to be most narrowly defined as someone who played wargames in the 70s before D&D (and RPGs), and since 4E is more of a wargame than any recent version of D&D (perhaps even more so than proto-D&D Chainmail), then perhaps there CAN be 4E grognards as well. <ducks> You know: 4E has finally stripped that pesky "RP" out of pushing miniatures around a table.

No, seriously, maybe that's what explains ardoughter (self-described 40-45 year old, see post above) and his 14-year old nephew both loving 4E. The circle is complete.

"The circle is complete" I wonder are the Vorlons involved somewhere

I first heard the term grognard describing old wargamers, who wouldn't touch rpgs with a 10' pole, and viewed asymetric turns as practised by Victory games with some suspicion.

No 4e is not a wargame, there are no supply rules, or command and control rules for that matter.
And yeah, I know I can house rule them back in. Be a bit perverse though since I never bothered withthem much before.

I like it because it is easy to run, easiest system I have run since Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1st ed.

Anyway I encourage rp, I like to have some meat with my potatoes.

 

[hong]

Anyway I encourage rp, I like to have some meat with my potatos.

The plural of potatoe is potatoes.

Hope this helps!

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The plural of potatoe is potatoes.

Hope this helps!

well you are right as far as the plural goes but having checked the singular is potato.
As a certain US VP once famously found out
Apologies for my mistake.

 

[Hairfoot]

I agree with Terwox's definition, and self-identify as such.

For me, a grognard is anyone who, upon being confronted with things a 15 year old finds cool in D&D, finds those things to be really stupid. You are particularly grognardy if you then loudly proclaim your resentment that said 15 year olds are being allowed to muck up YOUR Dungeons and Dragons.

In time, young man, you will find that a lot of the things 15-year-olds like are really stupid.