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D&D General What Happened To The New DRAGONLANCE Trilogy?

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
One person, who was “resigned” and the issue caused by them was resolved.

How is this now “WotC didn’t want the novels”?

They did, and fixed the issue blocking them.

You're glossing over the part where WotC broke the contract and refused to approve the drafts, and Weis & Hickman filed a $10 million lawsuit which ultimately forced WotC to relent.

"Dragonlance" Lawsuit Ends With A Whimper (and Settlement) – SpellTheory

I don't know who the "one guy" you're referring to is. I may have missed that story - do you have it?
 

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Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
Nobody ever went broke selling Gen X their own childhood back to them.
True dat.

There's a massive game/comic store not too far from me that exists for the purpose of selling my childhood back to me. If I lived closer to them I would basically just sign over my paycheck each week.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
You're glossing over the part where WotC broke the contract and refused to approve the drafts, and Weis & Hickman filed a $10 million lawsuit which ultimately forced WotC to relent.

"Dragonlance" Lawsuit Ends With A Whimper (and Settlement) – SpellTheory

I don't know who the "one guy" you're referring to is. I may have missed that story - do you have it?

I believe @darjr is referring to how that whole fiasco was apparently the fault of one WotC employee, who has since resigned, apparently due to the whole thing blowing up in their face.
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
I believe @darjr is referring to how that whole fiasco was apparently the fault of one WotC employee, who has since resigned, apparently due to the whole thing blowing up in their face.

I get that - I just haven't seen that report anywhere, so wondered what the source was.

WotC is small enough staff-wise that we would know exactly who this "one guy" who resigned is.
 

darjr

I crit!
You're glossing over the part where WotC broke the contract and refused to approve the drafts, and Weis & Hickman filed a $10 million lawsuit which ultimately forced WotC to relent.

"Dragonlance" Lawsuit Ends With A Whimper (and Settlement) – SpellTheory

I don't know who the "one guy" you're referring to is. I may have missed that story - do you have it?
No I’m not. That was the guy in charge of that who made that decision, along with other problematic decisions. And he quickly “resigned” after and the situation was fixed, starting from WotCs end.
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
No I’m not. That was the guy in charge of that who made that decision, along with other problematic decisions. And he quickly “resigned” after and the situation was fixed, starting from WotCs end.

Who reported that, and who is "the guy"?
 


jeremypowell

Adventurer
Nic Kelman left WotC in March. The lawsuit filing went a bit out of its way (IMHO) to point out the controversy over the publication of Kelman’s first novel, which some critics believed glorified criminal sexual behavior (edit for precision) “misogyny and pedophilia.”

Those are literally the only facts I know; I have absolutely no information about the circumstances or motives for Kelman leaving the company.
 
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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Who reported that, and who is "the guy"?
In their initial reporting about the Dragonlance lawsuit in mid-October, CBR stated:

The complaint notes that Wizards changed the editorial team for the Dragonlance trilogy in June 2020, adding Nic Kelman, whom the complaint alleges "was a controversial choice" due to questions of "misogyny and pedophilia" raised about his 2019 Girls: A Paean. After Kelman was assigned, the authors had a series of conversations surrounding "sensitivity issues" in the works in progress by Weis and Hickman, who rewrote dozens of pages to comply with Wizard's requests.

The lawsuit was later voluntarily dismissed in January, with Kelman resigning at the beginning of April.

Now, there's been no explicit linkage between those events, insofar as I'm aware, but it's not too hard to connect the dots.

(On a tangential note, CBR got the publication date of Girls: A Paean wrong. According to its Amazon page, it was published in 2004.)
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
Feels plausible but far from conclusively “it was literally all just Kelman and everything’s fine now.”

I guess we’ll know when we know. But if WotC was planning any Dragonlance ttrpg products for say the next 16 months, we would have some hints/UA for it by now. Which to me says no coordinated launch with these novels.
 

darjr

I crit!
Feels plausible but far from conclusively “it was literally all just Kelman and everything’s fine now.”

I guess we’ll know when we know. But if WotC was planning any Dragonlance ttrpg products for say the next 16 months, we would have some hints/UA for it by now. Which to me says no coordinated launch with these novels.
Yea, true.

Kelman had other issues. But in this case i think it’s pretty clear. In the lawsuit, without any dispute by parties involved, he said HE wouldn’t approve any more drafts. Not that WotC was stepping away or leaving the contract or changing anything else. HE unilaterally stopped the novels by refusing to accept any more drafts.
 

We can't forget the power of the videogame industry to promote the IPs. Hasbro wants to be the next Disney, and Dragonlance is a too good card to allow unecessary risks. They haven't learnt yet to produce themself without help their own blockbusters. And the videogames need time and money. I guess Dragonlance's time hasn't arrived yet.

Why this setting? The characters, they may have been the most D&D characters, at least some time in the past. But this can be a double edged swords, because they are a fabulous hook to promote the sales but their stories are endend, closing creative options to can publish more with these same characters.

The good new is Hasbro has got the right engine software to can create ARPGs then this will can be used for different titles, and these will need shorter times of developement.

Other point is how to design the right reboot avoiding the "jumping the shark" effect.

Some times I think there are a lot of things happening behind the curtains and we know nothing, and not only WotC or Hasbro but also the complete entertaiment industry.
 


Jaeger

That someone better.
I don't think so. If the novel was coming out shortly, then yes. But since the first novel in the trilogy comes out in 2022, and reasonable folks would want the game book to be released so as to not provide spoilers to the novels, there's no strong call to talk about the game book yet.

Reasonable on the surface, but WOTC made no mention of the upcoming DL novels even being a thing even before they got in the minor kerfuffle with Hickman and Weis.

All info and announcements have come from H&W. All of it.

Of course this is all still just tea-leaf reading through a glass darkly...

I think views differ in that I'm obviously more pessimistic on the issue, and others more optimistic.
 

JEB

Hero
There is nothing prohibiting the books from taking the game material as cannon. In other words, they can 100% work as from the same world.
It's certainly possible, sure. But's let's keep in mind Weis and Hickman are specifically writing "Classic Dragonlance" novels, meaning they almost certainly intend to follow the same canon as the original novels.

For their works to be compatible with a 5E Dragonlance, either
(a) 5E Dragonlance will have to be a continuation of Classic Dragonlance canon, with no significant changes, or
(b) Weis and Hickman will have to write the new novels in a way that's equally compatible with 5E Dragonlance (either by avoiding any major but relevant changes, or accepting 5E retcons into Classic canon).

(a) seems very unlikely at this point, for multiple reasons: complaints about major elements of Classic Dragonlance (Goldmoon, gully dwarves, kender, draconians); the canon policy's bit about dropping stuff that doesn't stand the test of time; and the precedent for sweeping changes set by 5E Ravenloft.

Meanwhile, (b) contradicts one stated goal of their new canon policy, which is to free non-Wizards creators from conforming to game canon.

So between the two, it seems a lot more likely to me that Weis and Hickman will be doing their own thing, and Wizards will be doing another (if anything at all).
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
It's certainly possible, sure. But's let's keep in mind Weis and Hickman are specifically writing "Classic Dragonlance" novels, meaning they almost certainly intend to follow the same canon as the original novels.

For their works to be compatible with a 5E Dragonlance, either
(a) 5E Dragonlance will have to be a continuation of Classic Dragonlance canon, with no significant changes, or
(b) Weis and Hickman will have to write the new novels in a way that's equally compatible with 5E Dragonlance (either by avoiding any major but relevant changes, or accepting 5E retcons into Classic canon).

(a) seems very unlikely at this point, for multiple reasons: complaints about major elements of Classic Dragonlance (Goldmoon, gully dwarves, kender, draconians); the canon policy's bit about dropping stuff that doesn't stand the test of time; and the precedent for sweeping changes set by 5E Ravenloft.

Meanwhile, (b) contradicts one stated goal of their new canon policy, which is to free non-Wizards creators from conforming to game canon.

So between the two, it seems a lot more likely to me that Weis and Hickman will be doing their own thing, and Wizards will be doing another (if anything at all).
You've made some estimations on how likely things are. I have different estimations for likelihood because I see the categories differently.

The "Classic Dragonlance" novels are the most beloved of them, and after that there was written a lot of varying quality by a variety of authors. Being freed from canon can easily mean that they can discard those non-Hickman & Weis books from what they are writing, returning to their roots. The same article you linked mentioned a new protagonist. And we do not know when the novel is set. There is nothing that says the new novels need revisit problematic characters or races from the Classic books. A RPG setting book will cover a lot more area then a trilogy, and a trilogy will go into a lot mroe depth of detail then a setting book will - who's the server at this particular inn, for instance. Writing so that the overlap between the two is not contradictory is pretty straightforward, especially if they have also tapped them to help write some of the material for the setting book - or are just both working off the same setting bible.
 


Reasonable on the surface, but WOTC made no mention of the upcoming DL novels even being a thing even before they got in the minor kerfuffle with Hickman and Weis.

All info and announcements have come from H&W. All of it.

Of course this is all still just tea-leaf reading through a glass darkly...

I think views differ in that I'm obviously more pessimistic on the issue, and others more optimistic.

I would have to go back and dig through everything, but I thought it all started with someone here seeing a listing on Amazon for the first book, starting a thread about it here, and then some time after that it was confirmed by Weis and/or Hickman on Twitter, and then the other stuff happened.
 

It's certainly possible, sure. But's let's keep in mind Weis and Hickman are specifically writing "Classic Dragonlance" novels, meaning they almost certainly intend to follow the same canon as the original novels.

For their works to be compatible with a 5E Dragonlance, either
(a) 5E Dragonlance will have to be a continuation of Classic Dragonlance canon, with no significant changes, or
(b) Weis and Hickman will have to write the new novels in a way that's equally compatible with 5E Dragonlance (either by avoiding any major but relevant changes, or accepting 5E retcons into Classic canon).

(a) seems very unlikely at this point, for multiple reasons: complaints about major elements of Classic Dragonlance (Goldmoon, gully dwarves, kender, draconians); the canon policy's bit about dropping stuff that doesn't stand the test of time; and the precedent for sweeping changes set by 5E Ravenloft.

Meanwhile, (b) contradicts one stated goal of their new canon policy, which is to free non-Wizards creators from conforming to game canon.

So between the two, it seems a lot more likely to me that Weis and Hickman will be doing their own thing, and Wizards will be doing another (if anything at all).
It seems to me that when W&H originally approached WotC they gave them permission to go ahead expecting them to do (b). But they actually did (a), which was why WotC objected. Lawyers then pointed out that having given permission, WotC can't stop W&H doing (a). As a result of that WotC have made it clear that the game and any novels are completely separate entities. WotC wouldn't have needed to do that if they where not moving forward with their own DL product. It seems to me that the novel and an a WotC revamp are both likely to come out in 2022, but by coincidence, not planning (at least not on WotC's part).
 

Nobody ever went broke selling Gen X their own childhood back to them. WotC will re-visit Dragonlance eventually. I just don't see any signs at all that they'll do it in conjunction with some novels they didn't want to see published.
I suspect this is correct.

I doubt we'll see DL any time soon, at least as a full setting book (I could see a campaign), and there's less profit in selling Gen X their childhood here than catering to their much larger Millennial and Gen-Z audience, but I suspect some sort of Dragonlance will re-appear eventually. Particularly likely around the 50th anniversary stuff when nostalgia will be running very high amongst Ye Olde Grogges (admittedly some of whom were likely not even born in 1974!). Actual evidence pointing to a DL book might cause me to change my mind - if we do see anything sooner I expect it'll be a campaign (I actually suspect a campaign is all we'll see either way).
 

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