D&D 5E What happens if other gaming companies don't have time for WoTc?

[Uchawi]

If Pathfinder released a new, streamlined product, I'd definitely give it a shot because I do enjoy Paizo's material. Their RPG team is great.

I would seriously consider a updated Pathfinder as well, or a spin off product that takes a serious look at martial characters versus casters and provides meaningful choices for all classes. Not the current lopsided system where casters win when considering flexibility of choice.

 

[Mistwell]

Paizo is still king probably in terms of RPG player numbers and online and probably at Gencon. Organized play would also be another indicator. Its a mature system. WoTC is outselling them because it is new and if some of the numbers posted here are reliable Paizo is still bigger in terms of players, WoTC is bigger in current sales.

Data on number of games played tilted to 5e about 3 months ago. Check Roll20 and the various other online services that track this...it took a while, but even those metrics titled 5e now. As for players, I am not sure, as I think that's based on the games people list as games played in their profile as opposed necessarily to games actually played by them in the past 3 months. There is also of course the fact some people play Pathfinder because they get it free - which isn't really a good measure for who is making money in this industry with those players But in terms of sales figures, awards, discussion, interest levels, 5e appears to be pretty firmly on top right now.

WoTC is not the undisputed RPG champion.

You will always find someone to dispute something, But, right now they are on top on enough objective metrics to say they are on top right now. Could change again, but that's what the picture looks like at this moment.

 

[Staffan]

I would seriously consider a updated Pathfinder as well, or a spin off product that takes a serious look at martial characters versus casters and provides meaningful choices for all classes. Not the current lopsided system where casters win when considering flexibility of choice.

The problem with an updated Pathfinder is that the Pathfinder crowd is primarily defined by being conservative. They started playing Pathfinder because they didn't want major changes, so a Pathfinder 2.0 that does change a lot of stuff is inherently problematic.

 

[Morrus]

The problem with an updated Pathfinder is that the Pathfinder crowd is primarily defined by being conservative. They started playing Pathfinder because they didn't want major changes, so a Pathfinder 2.0 that does change a lot of stuff is inherently problematic.

Maybe it was, but it was a long time ago now. I'm sure there are many new PF gamers since then.

 

[aramis erak]

What suvey, measure, or stat? Do any of you have sales figures from both companies to compare?

The evidence right now is that D&D 5th edition doing good but we don't know how good compared to Paizo. One relies on Amazon while the other their own website.

Assumption isn't fact.

*shrugs*

ICV2 checks with distributors and retail channel shops. It has something like 75% participation from the LGS marketplace. They're getting raw sales numbers, collating them, and ranking the results.

They don't release the total results... just the analysis from them.
They do this 3-4 times a year, every year, for the last decade on.

Amazon's source numbers are also concealed, but the rankings (the results) aren't. Week of release, D&D 5E PH hit the number one slot on their games and toys ranking, and the number 3 slot on overall sales via Amazon. Pathfinder had previously hit and held #1 in the G&T list, without hitting the top 10 on the overall sales... which implies a rather large difference.

And then, there's the corporate sales reports. Paizo doesn't release theirs, as they're not publicly traded; wizards does, and 5E was HUGE. Freaking astonishingly big. Numbers that imply an initial print run in the high 5-digit range, and note that it went to reprint within the quarter.

We have enough measures to know that D&D is stomping pathfinder in the market performance. In part, by not marketing to the same segment.

And that's without the subsidiary licensing - D&D has a huge external contract revenue stream for the videogames. Stupidly huge numbers. Pathfinder, less so... their licensee doesn't seem to have released it yet.

 

[Neptune]

By the way, as a follow-up, BMG worked things out with WOTC and are making things right by mailing out swag after the fact and making changes to the way all-access works. I was far from the only person to rant about it and it's only right to praise them after smacking them. They've done right by the players and that's a good thing. Kudos.

 

[delericho]

And then, there's the corporate sales reports. Paizo doesn't release theirs, as they're not publicly traded; wizards does, and 5E was HUGE. Freaking astonishingly big. Numbers that imply an initial print run in the high 5-digit range, and note that it went to reprint within the quarter.

I would be shocked if the 5e print run was only in the 5-digit range, given that the 3e PHB sold something like 300k units in the first month and the 5e launch was supposedly bigger.

 

[Neptune]

I can see that. There was such buzz about it. There were main stream news reports about the new release. The game was simplified. They addressed the new player with the intro module "Lost Mines of Phandelver". They built buzz with the playtest alone. To many the game feels like their invention. At the very least, players felt they were heard. They went about doing things the right way.

 

[Mistwell]

So Crawford confirmed they are working on books in-house only, in addition to the partnership books they are working on.

 

[Zaran]

I think a DnD product is such a huge profit maker that it would be unusual for a third party to say no. Green Ronin shut down their own stuff for 9 months so that they create Out of the Abyss and the Sword Coast book. Much to the chagrin of those of us who have been waiting for products Green Ronin has been working on for years.