What is the highest AC that a PC can get by class?

[RogueJK]

A lot of that AC is psionics or other than wotc material...

Take out all non core, class book and FR books and you have an AC that is gonna be greatly reduced.

Only 20 of the 142 points of AC are from Psionics. Remove the Ectoplasmic Armor Power Stone, Shield of Prudence Power Stone,
Skin of the Hero, and Psionic Dodge, and you are left with a totally non-psionic character with 122 AC (which is what I stated in my previous post).

And, as I also mentioned in my previous post, the rest of the AC points are from from official WotC sources. Nothing from Dragon is used, either. Only Core books, class books, and 1 feat and prestige class from FR. No other sources were used.

What specific things do you think come from non-WotC sources? I'd be happy to point out where the appear.

[Edit] And the AC Smackdown would make a perfectly viable melee fighter. They have an incredibly high AC, a good attack bonus, and decent hit points, not to mention the ability to heal and buff themselves. Plus, the 10 Duelist levels give them a great damage bonus (+3d6 with each hit), and the 2 Paladin levels gives them the ability to Smite Evil for +11 to damage 1/day.

If you don't like the bonuses from aging, the author of the smackdown takes that into account. He has a section in which he explains that if you leave that part out, the AC would only drop by 3 points. That would leave him with an AC of 142 - 20 (psionics) - 3 (aging) = 119. Still incredibly high.

Give him Boots of Speed for an additional +4 Haste bonus to AC, which brings our grand total to AC 123.

For an even more disturbing character, give him a Ring of Improved Invisibility or Blink. 50% miss chance coupled with an AC of 123 would be pure insanity. [/Edit]

 

[Henrix]

Kwalish, you need to read through the rules for stacking bonuses in the DMG, and check how Shapechange/Polymorph works these days.

(A hint is that a golem is a construct, which does not use equipment, and is d****d hard to to cast Cat's Grace on.)

 

[nwn_deadman]

Only 20 of the 142 points of AC are from Psionics. Remove the Ectoplasmic Armor Power Stone, Shield of Prudence Power Stone,
Skin of the Hero, and Psionic Dodge, and you are left with a totally non-psionic character with 122 AC (which is what I stated in my previous post).

And, as I also mentioned in my previous post, the rest of the AC points are from from official WotC sources. Nothing from Dragon is used, either. Only Core books, class books, and 1 feat and prestige class from FR. No other sources were used.

What specific things do you think come from non-WotC sources? I'd be happy to point out where the appear.

[Edit] And the AC Smackdown would make a perfectly viable melee fighter. They have an incredibly high AC, a good attack bonus, and decent hit points, not to mention the ability to heal and buff themselves. Plus, the 10 Duelist levels give them a great damage bonus (+3d6 with each hit), and the 2 Paladin levels gives them the ability to Smite Evil for +11 to damage 1/day.

If you don't like the bonuses from aging, the author of the smackdown takes that into account. He has a section in which he explains that if you leave that part out, the AC would only drop by 3 points. That would leave him with an AC of 142 - 20 (psionics) - 3 (aging) = 119. Still incredibly high.

Give him Boots of Speed for an additional +4 Haste bonus to AC, which brings our grand total to AC 123.

For an even more disturbing character, give him a Ring of Improved Invisibility or Blink. 50% miss chance coupled with an AC of 123 would be pure insanity. [/Edit]

I find it very had to believe that this guy rolled 4 18s had enough money to get 4 tomes/manuals +5 2 +5 defending weapons and the rest of equipment to go with it.

Not to mention that this character would have piss poor skills, saves and BAB to go with that ultra useless AC (anything over 60 is wasted anyway, save the ever so rare time that someone is going to use a true strike) This character is going to be hit 5% of the time anyway.

6 classes and this guy is going to have low skills across the board, since he has to put them into a wild array to make the prc classes.

6 feats are needed to do what this guy wants, that leaves 1 for whatever else.

At 20th level 3d6 is a pittance; anyone could have a weapon that would add 3d6 to each hit anyway.

Stop defending this ridiculous combination of a player and show me a PLAYABLE character that would actually have a chance of living its way to 20th level.

 

[RogueJK]

Not to mention that this character would have piss poor skills, saves and BAB...

6 classes and this guy is going to have low skills across the board, since he has to put them into a wild array to make the prc classes...

Since you're so adamant about this character's uselessness, I'll work the math for you.

18th level character: Human Mnk2/Pal2/Clr3/Mystic Wanderer1/Duelist10

BAB:1+2+2+0+10 = 15/10/5 Add to this your Dex (for ranged) or your Str (for melee, unless you Finesse). That's not bad for an 18th level character. Only 3 behind a straight Fighter.

Saves:
Base Fort. Save = 3+3+3+0+3 = 12+Con+Cha
Base Reflex Save = 3+0+1+3+7 = 14+Dex+2 from Grace+Cha
Base Will Save = 3+0+3+3+3 = 12+Wis+Iron Will+Cha
These are pretty good for an 18th level character. It makes a well-rounded character, with no single weak save. For comparison, an 18th level Monk (who are supposed to have the best saves) has only +11/+11/+11. The 32 Charisma will make them even higher, since a Paladin gets to add their Cha to your saves.
You can expect final saves of Fort. +23 +Con (Con is unknown), Ref. +40, and Will +36. Since he's 18th level, he'll probably have another couple of points from a Vest of Resistance or something along those lines.

Skills:
Perform 3 (Class)
Tumble 5 (Class)
Alchemy 3 (Cross-class)
Diplomacy 8 (Class)
Knowledge (nature) 3 (Class)
Profession (Herbalist) 3 (Class)
Base Skill Points (from classes only, before Int and any other additional skill points): 28+4+6+2+40 = 80 Subtract the 28 that you've already spent, and that leaves you with at least 52, plus your Int mod, plus 21 (1 point per level+3 for 1st level) for being human.

Base Hit Points: 2d8+2d10+2d8+1d8+10d10 Let's take average rolls for these, except for 1d8 that is max at 1st level. That's 84 HPs on average. Add your Con mod*18 to this. For comparison, an 18th level Fighter with average HP rolls would have around 95+Con*18 HPs.

Feats:
Iron Will, Dodge, Ambidexterity, Mobility, Off-Hand Parry, Twin-Sword Style, Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting.

This is by no means "piss-poor". This is a very well-rounded character, who also happens to have an insane AC. He also has the ability to cast up to 2nd level Cleric spells, 2 domain abilities, and a myriad of other class abilities.

And an AC over 60 may be wasted, but your original post stated that you were looking for "the highest AC that a character could get", not "the highest AC that a character could get but still be below 60". I think that the AC Smackdown more than fits your original criteria.

Just wait until the ELH and MM2 come out. I'm sure there are plenty of Epic Level monsters that would have a good laugh at a mere 60 AC.

(And please... don't resort to insults like you have in most other threads. Thanks.)

 

[Henrix]

nwn, if you ask for min/maxing, then you get min/maxing.

After all, you asked:

I am looking to find out the highest AC that a character can get by class.

If you want something else, perhaps you should consider asking something like: What is the highest AC any player character in your campaign has achieved?

 

[Sammael99]

nwn, if you ask for min/maxing, then you get min/maxing.

After all, you asked:


If you want something else, perhaps you should consider asking something like: What is the highest AC any player character in your campaign has achieved?

The whole thread is pretty pointless anyway if any kind of magic items are included...

I'd be interested to see what best AC can be obtained by class with no magic items and no spells, no PrCs and no multiclassing.

But then min-maxers out there would probably find that dead boring

 

[nwn_deadman]

(And please... don't resort to insults like you have in most other threads. Thanks.)

I was not the one that started the insults mind you...

Like I said, take the rules that I had laid out and this character is vastly different than the one in the smack down.

How many players would actually make a PC with 6 classes, moreover how many DM's would let them?

For instance, 52 skill points is barely enough to have 2 skills at max rank 23 + 23 + 6 is the best he can do.

Also, the character was not human in the example.

Where are you getting a 32 cha from? He has only 760k worth of goods at 20th level, you can’t have +5 tomes for everything and still have all the items the guy listed.

How would this character fare at 1st 5th 10th and 16th level? Seems to me that most of his BAB (and attack powers) comes from levels 11-20.

Seems to me that most (but not all) of the smack down characters would only be good at the level that they made them for the smack down.

If you started from 1st level and worked up, would this character be good all the way through? (My opinion) Is that this character would be blown out of the water by someone that focused on 1-2 classes.

At 10th level this guy has only a 5 BAB and NO other abilities to stand up to a 10th level Fighter, Cleric, Wizard or Rogue.

Not that this guy didn't have the mega AC (even under a more strict rule set this guy would be the king of the AC), but he would be useless until he made 15+ level...

 

[RogueJK]

For instance, 52 skill points is barely enough to have 2 skills at max rank 23 + 23 + 6 is the best he can do.

At 10th level this guy has only a 5 BAB and NO other abilities to stand up to a 10th level Fighter, Cleric, Wizard or Rogue.

I agree that the AC Smackdown does have some holes, the most notable one being his abundance of magic items. However, even without some of the Tomes and without straight 18s for stats, he would still have a formidable AC. Without any of the bonuses from stats (not even Dex), he would still have an AC of 65!

So, bump some of the Tomes down to +2 or so, lower some of the bonuses from the various Gloves of Dexterity/Cloaks of Charisma/etc., and drop the base ability scores to 14-16... you're still looking at an AC of around 100.

Also, you seemed to miss a couple of things:

1. He isn't 20th level... He's 18th. When I removed the 2 levels of Psion, I didn't replace them with anything. You could easily add 2 levels of Fighter (for a BAB increase and 2 extra feats) to make him 20th level, but as it stands, he's 18th.

2. The 52 remaining skill points don't take into account his extra skill points if you make him human, or any of the extra points from Intelligence. That ought to help a lot. And his max ranks for class skills would be 21, since he's 18th level.

3. His BAB at level 10 would be 1+2+2+0+2= +7/+2. That's the same as a Rogue, Cleric, Bard, or Monk of equal level, and better than a Wizard or Sorceror. Plus, he has the ability to heal and buff himself already, and his saves will be higher than most other characters, thanks to his Divine Grace ability.

4. He doesn't have 6 classes. He only has 3 classes, and 2 prestige classes. The character, as a whole, still makes sense, though. He's a lightly armored, highly dexterous holy warrior. All of the classes fit this concept, since all but the Duelist have a religious bent to them. The Duelist levels are added to complement and highlight his fighting style.

Overall, I think the character would do fine at most levels. He might not be as good as a straight fighter at the low-to-middling levels, (around 6th or so) but any other time, he is just as good, if not better than, a character of equal level.

 

[nwn_deadman]

Ok 5 Classes since you took out the psion.

Didn't catch that one...

Seeing this character as a holy warrior makes sense...

If you put 2 levels of fighter in you would have 4 attacks...

Also, the original character was not human, so there would be no 2 wep fighting or additional skill points...

This is a good character for AC, I will give you that...

But with all the multiclassing going on (1st 10 levels) hes not looking too tough... Levels 1-8 hes gonna be really far behind a fighter type in BAB and a spellcaster in spell powers...

This character can make use of class features and stats to get a very high AC and save all the loot for items and weapons...

The reason I brought this up was...

Would you want to do an arena battle 1-1 at each level with this character, when an opponent is going to be using the exact same rule set that you are?

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7994 see my post in this thread for more info on what I am getting at...

 

[Bill Muench]

Well, as the author of Super-Duper AC man, I have a few things to say:
1. I've actually gotten him up to AC 194 but just haven't posted it yet.
2. He's not meant to be a playable character. There's no way in
hell I could justify him, and I wrote him up. It is simply an experiment to see how high it is possible to get an AC in 3E using official sources. That means max stats, max rolls, max durations, etc. because that is possible, if not even remotely likely.
3. He falls within the wealth limits for a 20th level character and as such I don't think it is fair to say that he has too many magic items. A lot of them are consumable, however, so he only gets to do this once. However, as has been pointed out, he's still got an incredible AC even normally.
4. I don't believe there are any rules errors in his writeup. If you can find any, please let me know.

I'll see about posting the updated version tonight from home.