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D&D 5E What is your least favorite class in 5E?

What is your least favorite class in 5E?

  • Artificer

    Votes: 38 27.0%
  • Barbarian

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Bard

    Votes: 25 17.7%
  • Cleric

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Druid

    Votes: 11 7.8%
  • Fighter

    Votes: 7 5.0%
  • Monk

    Votes: 41 29.1%
  • Paladin

    Votes: 8 5.7%
  • Ranger

    Votes: 26 18.4%
  • Rogue

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • Sorcerer

    Votes: 33 23.4%
  • Warlock

    Votes: 16 11.3%
  • Wizard

    Votes: 11 7.8%

  • Total voters
    141

pukunui

Legend
It's hard for me to choose. Ultimately I went with druid for two reasons:

1) I don't like the way wild shape works
2) I don't like the fact that so many druid spells require concentration


Artificer would probably come in second for me -- a cool concept that just doesn't quite work out that well in execution, particularly if you're not fond of pets (which I'm not).

Warlock might come in third. I love the class conceptually, but its efficacy is hugely dependent on how many short rests the DM lets you have and the invocations are too split between "must have" and "not worth having".
 

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Ashrym

Hero
To anyone who has issues with the setting for monks...

Boxing existed as one of the first martial arts from over 3000 BCE and is typical in MMA today.

Pankration was created over 4000 years ago. It is attributed to Theseus and Greek in nature. Greek mythology stressed superhuman an supernatural abilities in it's heroes.

The roots of parkour stem from a martial art developed prior to WWII based on the observations of a French naval officer observing African tribes and his position was strengthening the body, the energy, and the morality of the practitioners. The origins of parkour (African and European) fit the monk extremely well.

The class was based on a fictional Korean martial art using Remo Williams from The Destroyer so there was clearly some pop-culture reference but that doesn't mean the class doesn't apply to a typical European setting, especially in a fictional world anyway. I would point to Western martial arts and parkour as the basis here.
 

Greg K

Hero
To anyone who has issues with the setting for monks...

Boxing existed as one of the first martial arts from over 3000 BCE and is typical in MMA today.

Pankration was created over 4000 years ago. It is attributed to Theseus and Greek in nature. Greek mythology stressed superhuman an supernatural abilities in it's heroes.

The roots of parkour stem from a martial art developed prior to WWII based on the observations of a French naval officer observing African tribes and his position was strengthening the body, the energy, and the morality of the practitioners. The origins of parkour (African and European) fit the monk extremely well.

The class was based on a fictional Korean martial art using Remo Williams from The Destroyer so there was clearly some pop-culture reference but that doesn't mean the class doesn't apply to a typical European setting, especially in a fictional world anyway. I would point to Western martial arts and parkour as the basis here.
It is not that martial artists do not belong. It is that the Monk is terrible at replicating martial artists and styles (including the associated supernatural abilities) from most cultures- including both many East Asian styles and Western styles such as Pankration.
 
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Minigiant

Legend
Okay, so the monk class, as written, doesn't do that, because martial arts = ki. You can only have divine ki, which works exactly like regular ki except it's yellow, and does not resemble other divine magic.

(And ki = martial arts, which is a whole other problem.)

Ki in 5e is just flowing life energy. The Monk's problem isn't Ki per se. The Martial arts = Ki wasn't the problem either. That is just flavor and fixed if the base wasn't so hardcoded.

The Monk's problem was that the WOTC designers based the the class off of the paytest but only offered one type of monk image: the old busted one. Then they tried to simplify it for new players

So there was no path to expand it as the only options for it was old bad ideas based on the skeleton for a single viewpoint and then dumbed down.
This is why when they attempted to expand on the monk with the ATLA-like Way of the 4 Elements, Street Fighter like Way ofte Sun Soul, and the Kensei, it was unfulfilling to many. 5e still was selling Caine from Kung Fu and Remo Williams and trying to paint new ideas on it just like 3e, 2e, and the rest did.
 

Ashrym

Hero
Ki in 5e is just flowing life energy. The Monk's problem isn't Ki per se. The Martial arts = Ki wasn't the problem either. That is just flavor and fixed if the base wasn't so hardcoded.

The Monk's problem was that the WOTC designers based the the class off of the paytest but only offered one type of monk image: the old busted one. Then they tried to simplify it for new players

So there was no path to expand it as the only options for it was old bad ideas based on the skeleton for a single viewpoint and then dumbed down.
This is why when they attempted to expand on the monk with the ATLA-like Way of the 4 Elements, Street Fighter like Way ofte Sun Soul, and the Kensei, it was unfulfilling to many. 5e still was selling Caine from Kung Fu and Remo Williams and trying to paint new ideas on it just like 3e, 2e, and the rest did.

I don't disagree that the class is very hard-coded to a specific model. Monks definitely continue to stress Remo Williams and Caine. Flavor can be reflavored. The western versus eastern argument for setting is what I don't see as a strong argument against the class.

Subclasses can help but I would hope to see a list of alternative abilities for given abilities at specific levels because I think it's possible to do a lot with that on a monk along those lines and it's those mechanics that could use some leeway.
 

Ashrym

Hero
It is not that martial artists do not belong. It is that the Monk is terrible at replicating martial artists and styles (including the associated supernatural abilities) from most cultures- including both many East Asian styles and Western styles such as Pankration.

Yes. Some of that can be worked on in subclasses, but I think a list of alternative abilities at given levels would do wonders for the class.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Favourite class not in 5e, which I grumble about not being in 5e endlessly, is the swordmage. Teleporting round the battlefield while wreathing your sword in flame, encasing it in ice, or setting it crackling with lightning was a level of awesome which 5e just doesn't come close to.
What edition was that?

I'm playing a "sword sage" - a psi warrior fighter with the sage background
 

ECMO3

Adventurer
I love rangers, although I do take spells that readily lend themselves to the non-magical, nature-guy trope.
Since TCE I love Rangers too, although I lean the other way - I tend to take the magic-like spells and more magicish subclasses and pick up feats for even more magic. :)

Fey Wanderer with Shadow Touched feat, cause fear and druid warrior fighting style is freaking awesome!
 

Lakesidefantasy

Adventurer
Since TCE I love Rangers too, although I lean the other way - I tend to take the magic-like spells and more magicish subclasses and pick up feats for even more magic. :)

Fey Wanderer with Shadow Touched feat, cause fear and druid warrior fighting style is freaking awesome!
I am happy for you. Are you happy for me?
 


vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
To anyone who has issues with the setting for monks...

Boxing existed as one of the first martial arts from over 3000 BCE and is typical in MMA today.

Pankration was created over 4000 years ago. It is attributed to Theseus and Greek in nature. Greek mythology stressed superhuman an supernatural abilities in it's heroes.

The roots of parkour stem from a martial art developed prior to WWII based on the observations of a French naval officer observing African tribes and his position was strengthening the body, the energy, and the morality of the practitioners. The origins of parkour (African and European) fit the monk extremely well.

The class was based on a fictional Korean martial art using Remo Williams from The Destroyer so there was clearly some pop-culture reference but that doesn't mean the class doesn't apply to a typical European setting, especially in a fictional world anyway. I would point to Western martial arts and parkour as the basis here.
Its not the martial art part that makes it a little out of place in a pseudo-Europe with magic, its the built-in stuff like Astral Projection, Running on water, Jump-flight etc

Martial arts are pretty universals, but martial artist that run up walls, fly in the air and project themselves in the spirit world is pretty much inspired by one single trope: the kung-fu stuff. Not even the anime characters from modern medias, which could be a good inspiration for WotC as to what people want of an unarmored martial artist, including weapon masters.
 

Ogre Mage

Adventurer
Thematically the sorcerer. It's just awesome. However I find sorcerers as fun to play as filing taxes.

Warlock is my favourite mechanically (and what I picked for the poll). Invocations provide so much customisation, while the pacts basically give you an entire second subclass. And the themes overlap with sorcerer a lot.

Favourite class not in 5e, which I grumble about not being in 5e endlessly, is the swordmage. Teleporting round the battlefield while wreathing your sword in flame, encasing it in ice, or setting it crackling with lightning was a level of awesome which 5e just doesn't come close to.

Edit: Ignore me, I read the title wrong.
I may do a poll on favorite classes in 5E after this thread has run its course.
 





Greg K

Hero
Not even the anime characters from modern medias, which could be a good inspiration for WotC as to what people want of an unarmored martial artist, including weapon masters.
I am sure many people might want that. I am sure many people also want Street Fighter or similar video games. However, these are, for the most part, definitely not what I and most people whom I know would want.
 

squibbles

Explorer
Yep. It is now about as core as core classes get, but try coming up with anything that really looks like a classic D&D Cleric in history, mythology, or any non-D&D derived fantasy literature and you mostly come up short. An early monopoly on healing, an absolute necessity, let something pretty weird and sui generis become deeply ingrained as "normal".

The weird specificity of them being a wielder of theurgical magic who also is a heavily armored melee combatant focused on bludgeoning weapons is not really enforced on the class overall in 5e (though it is still the presumed MO of too many of the subclasses), so for this edition I don't particularly dislike them, but in a pan-edition class hating contest they would be my go-to least favorite.
That's a good point. The cleric jank in this edition is somewhat reduced.

Fun Fact (read here: WotC once again fumbled during the playtest)
The original cleric as presented in the playtest got to choose its CD from a few choices taken from a long list of possible channel divinity. No cleric were forced to take Turn Undead (IIRC, there was even a ''charm undead'' somewhere in there).
/facepalm... of course that's why :LOL:

Fixing the jank wasn't popular enough.

----

Yes. Some of that can be worked on in subclasses, but I think a list of alternative abilities at given levels would do wonders for the class.
Yeah, maybe monks could have something like the eldritch invocations list but for martial arts stuff, and get a choice from it instead of the current locked-in features like deflect arrows, slow fall, and stillness of mind.
 

Martial arts could stay.

There just should be 3-5 options for it

I should be able to be Orc Zangief and Final Atomic Buster an ogre by now. Or Goliath Abigail. Or Dwarf Alex. Or Bugbear Hugo.

Goblin Dhalsim would be fine to.

Great Now Imma spend the next hour converting Street Fighters characters into D&D PCs and NPCs... again.
so we are in agreement to split the martial art off the subclasses for greater freedom of designing?
Okay, so the monk class, as written, doesn't do that, because martial arts = ki. You can only have divine ki, which works exactly like regular ki except it's yellow, and does not resemble other divine magic.

(And ki = martial arts, which is a whole other problem.)
it at least has so real words inspiration rather than say how arcane magic works mostly.
Same is true of fighters, but they don't have spellcasting as a core feature. Magic items is enough magic to make them workable anyways.

Sure, in a no-magic-at-all game, monks are out, but so are all but 5 subclasses in the PHB.
the problem is mystical martial artist includes way more magic than the monk does right now a pure spell casting would not solve it.
What edition was that?

I'm playing a "sword sage" - a psi warrior fighter with the sage background
3.5e as what else would it be?
 

Minigiant

Legend
so we are in agreement to split the martial art off the subclasses for greater freedom of designing?
No, the opposite.
Martial Arts should be core class but have more options than the Dex/Wis Speed Martial Art. Same with Flurry of Blow

Shoving things into subclasses is part of the reason why monk is least liked. The base class doesn't meet expectations. Subclasses are minor tweaks and should not be used for major alterations. Not the way 5e does subclasses anyway.
 

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