D&D General What it means for a race to end up in the PHB, its has huge significance

[CreamCloud0]

I agree the 2024 Players Handbook needs some way to present an appealing Human-Elf, because it was and remains popular.

The thing is, the 2014 Half-Elf itself is moot. Its main trait was the ability score improvements, but that doesnt matter anymore.

It is impossible to add new information to the 2014 Half-Elf, because then it would no longer be a 2014 Half-Elf.

Meanwhile, it is possible to use either the Elf stat or the Human stat, to reconstruct the 2014 Half-Elf or approximate it well enough.

it might be enough for you, many people disagree

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I agree the 2024 Players Handbook needs some way to present an appealing Human-Elf, because it was and remains popular.

The thing is, the 2014 Half-Elf itself is moot. Its main trait was the ability score improvements, but that doesnt matter anymore.

It is impossible to add new information to the 2014 Half-Elf, because then it would no longer be a 2014 Half-Elf.

Meanwhile, it is possible to use either the Elf stat or the Human stat, to reconstruct the 2014 Half-Elf or approximate it well enough.

I'm perfectly happy updating from a '14 "half-elf" to a '24 "half-elf" (whatever name it ends up using) - I've been through "edition changes" before, I can handle the mechanics being revised.

I just want there to be something to update it to that isn't the '24 human or '24 elf, and at present those are the only options being presented.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm perfectly happy updating from a '14 "half-elf" to a '24 "half-elf" (whatever name it ends up using) - I've been through "edition changes" before.

I just want there to be something to update it to that isn't the '24 human or '24 elf, and at present those are the only options being presented.

If the "real" trait swapping comes from DMs Guide with DM approval, would that be ok enough?

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

If the "real" trait swapping comes from DMs Guide with DMs approval, would that be ok enough?

Sure.

Put a species trait "mix-and-match" system with "half-elf"/Khoravar and "half-orc"/Jhor'guntaal as examples in the '24 DMG the same way the '14 DMG had a section for custom race creation with aasimar and eladrin as examples, and that's all I need. I've said as much before.

I'd just like some indication that such a system is in the works instead of silence. Between the problems inherent in the "pick-a-parent" system, as I see it, and them retconning previously mixed-ancestry characters into single-ancestry ones, I can't really say they're inspiring much confidence from me on this particular issue.

 

[Mistwell]

I think the 2024 Players Handbook can thread the needle. Use the Human-Elf as the main example for how to build a multispecies character, and make sure it is reasonably satisfying.


Here are the 2014 Half-Elf traits. The Ability bonuses are now moot. Language is moot, 2024 grants three.

• Fey, Charm Resistance
• Darkvision
• Choose two skills

In my opinion the above three traits are unworthy of defining a species. In any case.


Here, is the 2024 Elf traits

• Fey, Charm Resistance
• Darkvision
• Perception skill proficiency
• Cantrip plus cantrip-like lineage
• Slot 1 and slot 2 spells
• Trance, Sleep Immunity

Allowing any character to swap a cantrip for any proficiency would then approximate the 2014 Half-Elf. Indeed, there can be a new cantrip that itself grants a proficiency with skill, tool, weapon, or language, swappable per Long Rest.

In any case, even Fey, Charm Resistance, and Perception skill is already close enough, especially when the background and background feat can grant many skill proficiencies.


Here is the 2024 Human traits.

• Extra Inspiration
• Choose one skill proficiency
• Free background feat

Indeed, a new 2024 background feat that grants Fey, Charm Resistance, one skill proficiency, and Darkvision, would be spot on for the 2014 Half Elf, but isnt even worth doing. To make it more appealing, grant Fey, Charm Resistance, Darkvision, and one cantrip.


(Again, the Darkvision itself can be a cantrip, and absent from the 2024 Elf description but available as a choice of cantrip. In which case, the elven Feat would be Fey, Charm Resistance, plus choose two cantrips, which feels elven enough when using a Human stat.)


The 2014 Half-Elf lacks enough information. There is little or nothing to rescue.

With respect, this is incredibly not compelling.

The half-elf in the PHB has a huge amount of detail and identity to it. A description about them being from two worlds, their common roles in society as diplomats and wanderers, names lists, a differing age range and descriptions, they are all fey ancestry, they have a long list of variants like Aquatic, Drow. High, Mark variants, Wood, etc.. there is a full identity to the Half-elf. There is tremendous history behind the concept, not just in novels but in all editions of D&D. There are thousands of players playing a half-elf with a distinct identity which isn't elf and isn't human.

You can't just whitewash that with a handful of kloogy rules to try and fit it into one concept or another. It's not an elf or a human. It's its own thing, and hand waiving that isn't going to go over well with a lot of players.

Now they might do that anyway. But responses like yours are very unpersuasive to make those upset players feel any better about it. We all understand what the UA article is trying to do. You don't need to keep repeating it. A lot of people find it objectionable. That should be OK.

 

[Hussar]

Khoravar in Eberron are a 5+ millennia-old, self-sustaining population block native to Khorvaire that see themselves as a distinct people from their human and elven ancestors.

Why should I care what Eberron says? Eberron can take care of itself. If you play a non-supported D&D setting, which Eberron is, then it behooves you to do the work to make the core material fit.

IOW, who cares? Well, you care, obviously. But, why is this my problem? I'm not playing Eberron, have never played in Eberron, and most likely will never play in Eberron. Eberron is it's own thing and if Eberron deviates from core assumptions (which having a half-elven nation is most definitely a deviation from core assumptions) then, it's 100% up to people playing in Eberron to square that circle.

 

[Hussar]

For the elven cultures who can see in the dark, it is a spell. Elves ARENT known for seeing in the dark! The old school Elf lacked "infravision". For most elven cultures, Darkvision has little or no relationship to the habitat and customs of the elven culture.

Elves ARENT known for breathing water. The fact that one culture does is bizarre, replaceable by Triton, and these Elves obviously obtained the ability to breathe water by means of magic. LOL! They didnt hold their breath for millions of years while slowly evolving the ability to breathe water. It is a magic transmutation spell!

Same goes for Avariel wings. Magic.

Uhh, what?

Which old school elf didn't have infravision. Elves have always been able to see in the dark in D&D.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Why should I care what Eberron says? Eberron can take care of itself. If you play a non-supported D&D setting, which Eberron is, then it behooves you to do the work to make the core material fit.

IOW, who cares? Well, you care, obviously. But, why is this my problem? I'm not playing Eberron, have never played in Eberron, and most likely will never play in Eberron. Eberron is it's own thing and if Eberron deviates from core assumptions (which having a half-elven nation is most definitely a deviation from core assumptions) then, it's 100% up to people playing in Eberron to square that circle.

I must have missed the memo where they said Eberron was no longer being supported.

Is it in the chapter of the new Vecna book where the PCs visit the Mournland? Or perhaps the upcoming book on the worlds of D&D with some 30 pages dedicated to covering the setting?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Incidentally, Scourge Aasimar seem to have taken over the Edgy race spot once tieflings became cute, so I've seen a fair few of those around. If that angle remains an option aasimar may yet see another boost in popularity.

I think new angles with this version of Aasimar, there are some strange Celestials and Upper Planes out there.

 

[Clint_L]

The proposed system only covers "everything" because it actually covers nothing. No character of mixed ancestry is allowed to have their own distinct species mechanics under "pick-a-parent".

No, it covers everything. Just not the way you want, which requires that anyone of mix-species lineage have separate rules to delineate that.

This should be a role-play choice. If players are only interested in mixed-species characters because they see a mechanical advantage, then they weren't really into it anyway.

And that's setting aside the ridiculous complexity added to the game by allowing for the hundreds upon hundred of possible combinations that would be added. My new players already take forever to choose a species out of the options currently available. I can't even imagine how long it would take if each of those species now had 40 different variations, or however many other playable species there are.