What LA are a half-celestial's stat boosts worth?
- Thread starter shilsen
- Start date
Aust Diamondew
First Post
+2 Sounds about right to me. Maybe a bit more, but no quite enough to reach a 3 imo.
BigRedRod
First Post
Those are far too exciting for just +1, but you'd be sold out going +3 or higher (nice stats are lovely, but not so useful alone)
+2 seems pretty much bang on
I think I vaguely recall hearing of a house rule where +3ECL (I may have that number wrong) bought you straight 18s in the base stats. I'm not saying I agree with that heathen practise though
+2 seems pretty much bang on
I think I vaguely recall hearing of a house rule where +3ECL (I may have that number wrong) bought you straight 18s in the base stats. I'm not saying I agree with that heathen practise though
green slime
First Post
Its hard to evaluate. Those Stat boosts wouldn't be worth a +3 in a 4th level game (meaning you start at 1st level). But in a 20th level game, starting at 17th... +4 Con means you have +34 hp, compared 3d10 for a fighter. +4 Str, you loose 1 BAB.
You also have +17 skill points so have made up most level difference there (unless you were a rogue, in which case you would only be -7 skill points behind).
+2 better Fort, & Will saves +1 Reflex, which puts you on par with what you would loose out on if you were a cleric.
As a sorcerer, bard, or cleric you lose Casters Level, but improve your DC's by 2. You also gain some lower level spells (due to high Stat) in exchange for higher level spells, but you are still advancing up the Spells/day table, which your non-LA colleagues are no longer doing.
You also have +17 skill points so have made up most level difference there (unless you were a rogue, in which case you would only be -7 skill points behind).
+2 better Fort, & Will saves +1 Reflex, which puts you on par with what you would loose out on if you were a cleric.
As a sorcerer, bard, or cleric you lose Casters Level, but improve your DC's by 2. You also gain some lower level spells (due to high Stat) in exchange for higher level spells, but you are still advancing up the Spells/day table, which your non-LA colleagues are no longer doing.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Actually, it's compared with 3d10+con. If the fighter at 17th-level had a 22 con (+6 con item and a 16 to start) that's an average of 48.5 hp.green slime said:
As far as I know, Int bonuses do not retroactively raise skill points. Was this changed in 3.5?
Overall I think the stat boosts are actually less useful the higher your level. At low levels, a fighter-type will make out well. At 17th, not nearly so well. And most classes that are special ability intensive (rogue, monk, druid, spellcasters), will do poorly with this trade at any level.
I'd probably put it on the strong side of +1. But not strong enough for +2.
green slime
First Post
Lord Pendragon said:
Yes, Lord Pendragon, you are right on the hp
1) That the characters would have the same Base stats, prior to the stat bonuses being applied. Otherwise the comparisson becomes pointless. So if the 17th level fighter had 17d10+Base Con mod*17+2*17 (because his Con is +4 higher...) compare to the 20th level fighter 20 + Base Con*20. Difference is 3d10 + 3*Base Con mod. SO in your example, 3d10 + 12 vs 34.
2) Retroactively has nothing to do with it. The Intelligence boost IS +2, over 17 levels, that is +17 skill points.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Yes, on average:green slime said:
20HD fighter gains 20d10+120 (average 230)
17HD template gains 17d10+136 (average 229.5)
So while it's not a detriment to the templated fighter, the con bonus is not an advantage hp-wise (though it does add to Fort saves, etc.)
You're right. I was thinking of adding the template to the fighter later in his career (because I'd toyed with that in a game I play in). If applied at character creation, that is definitely +17 skill points.
