What makes a bard a bard?

[tafkamhokie]

I know everyone's game is a bit different, but the +1 (or +2 or +5 or whatever) from the bard has made many a fight. Sure, a +3 is not a huge statistical boost. But statistics don't matter when half the party is unconscious and the barbarian just missed his crit confirmation roll on the BBEG by 2. The right bonus in the right place is a game changer even if it is statistically insignificant.

My current game is around 17th level and the bard can put out a +6 song right now. It is truly disgusting how much power that adds to the bruisers. Usually, that is converted into a power attack for a total of +18 to damage per hit. Even for the monk who doesn't power attack much because of the lack of a 2 handed weapon, +6 to damage to each of their 5 or 6 attacks per round adds up in a hurry too.

Even at low levels, "and +1 for the singing" became a running joke simply because of how often people would miss by one, only to be bailed out by the bard.

Is a bard a good replacement for a rogue, wiz/sor, clr, or bruiser? No. But in a five-man party, they become interesting and in a 6 man party, they become devastating just because they bring something new and different to the table.

 

[Spatula]

Bless, Aid, & Heroes Feast all give a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls. That's it, aside from the highly situational +1 saves vs fear, which isn't very useful. So what if bard songs don't stack with it? The songs are better, even at 1st level with no feats or splatbooks. Add in inspire greatness & haste, and a group with two or more physical-damage types is going to tear apart their foes (believe me, I've seen it). Throw in the Eberron feats & Complete Adventurer stuff and it's even more disgusting.

Now, if your group isn't physically-focused, the bard's buffs aren't as useful. That wouldn't be a problem in 4e, where everyone would benefit from a flat bonus to attack & damage rolls, though of course who knows what the 4e bard's powers will look like; smack someone with your lute & give a friend a bonus, is my guess.

 

[drothgery]

True. I'm not saying they are completely useless. The bonus provides something. It just doesn't provide as much as a cleric to the party.

True enough. But CoDzilla is a known issue with 3.x; no one provides as much as a cleric to a party except a well-played druid. And the other thing to remember is that all those spells that don't stack with bard songs but provide similar effects? The cleric doesn't have to cast them; they're now free to do something else instead (and even bopping the nearest bad guy on the head with a mace is likely to be effective with an inspire courage in effect and the bard having cast haste -- which means the wizard doesn't have to).

 

[drothgery]

Bless, Aid, & Heroes Feast all give a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls. That's it, aside from the highly situational +1 saves vs fear, which isn't very useful. So what if bard songs don't stack with it? The songs are better, even at 1st level with no feats or splatbooks. Add in inspire greatness & haste, and a group with two or more physical-damage types is going to tear apart their foes (believe me, I've seen it). Throw in the Eberron feats & Complete Adventurer stuff and it's even more disgusting.

Though when my bard died and I replaced him with a warmage, we still tore through our foes, at least when the cleric figured out that he didn't need to prepare blasting spells.

 

[Chimera]

True. I'm not saying they are completely useless. The bonus provides something. It just doesn't provide as much as a cleric to the party.

Note: HIGH level Cleric. At 6th level and lower, I'm adding more than a Cleric can possibly add and in doing so, I'm freeing him up to do other things, like heal people (which I consider a much more boring job than being a Bard).

Yeah, it's not too bad when you look at it in terms of percentages. But when you are looking at a character who, when he hits does 1d6+6 damage, then yes, it provides about a 30% bonus in pure damage and even more than that due to an increase in to hit bonus.

If you are providing the bonus to a raging barbarian who needs 2s to hit with his first 2 attacks and is doing 3d6+21 damage per hit...it adds a really low percentage of damage.

So how many raging barbarians are in your party?

I'm adding this to everyone, the fact that it isn't as great for the maximum damage dealer is less of an argument than the fact that it is a huge boost for the several other PCs who aren't doing that kind of damage.

For our big gun, I know he appreciates the bonus, because he can power attack more often while being sure of hitting, and does more damage because of it. So +3/+3 turns into +0/+9.

Where it will shine even more is after next month, when that player leaves to go to Iraq for a year and we lose our heaviest hitter. Then it will be far more valuable to the (now secondary) fighter types who will need to rise to the occasion.

The problem is that the bard's use HEAVILY depends on the group you are in and your ability to stack spells, magic items, feats, and the like onto your Bard Song. Some of these things(Song of the Heart, Inspirational Boost) were created because of a problem with the bard. It sucks to know that you're taking feats and spells just to make yourself adequate.

Like Fighter feats and Wizard spells, no doubt.

 

[pawsplay]

Both are a very huge stretch to call them bards.

By your definition, anyone who ever sung a song or wrote a poem or played an instrument would be a bard.

Why is that my definition? I mentioend only beings who invented some of the most primal forms of music and who can awe others, even gods, with their performances. "I invented the lyre" is, um, quite a bit different than "anyone who has ever played an instrument." I have no idea where you got your interpretation of my post from.

 

[_sheepy_]

With 4e's mechanic of most effects requiring an attack, do you think the Warlord will be the model used for a Bard, substituting magic instead of martial attacks?

What makes a Bard a Bard?

What is it about the Bard that is core to the class concept?

Social skills? Jack of all trades? Music? Bard Songs? The mix of magic and martial ability? Party buffing?

1) Yes I think so, if bard remains a leader instead of being mixed role like druid. Just look at cleric.

2) I would agree those before me that "what makes the bard" depends on the player. For me it is its versatility and diversity. You can make it good at a few things, you can focus on one thing, you can make it a true jack of all trades (don't...). Kind of like druid, but with much less attachments and much simpler rules.
In my current underpowered lv 7 game (underpowered due to PCs' play style) I am, as a bard, the party wizard, the party rogue, the party spokeswoman, the walking database of the world, and the party chef, filling the big gaps of the otherwise oriental party. Luckily not the party maid...... however you can call me "the nurse", too, and I suspect she holds the only bow in the whole party...

Party buffing is more like one of bards' few viable direction rather then what make bard stands out. Wizards and Cleric can do good buffing AND patching, too. Music is unique, but that is uniqueness not core value. Rogue can be good with social if they want, and even druids can have diplomacy (mine do). That is why to me, as a player, it is versatility that makes a bard a bard.

 

[Shroomy]

If bards are supposed to be arcane leaders, does that mean we'll be seeing them use implements? Magical insturments with bonuses like weapons or wands. Is that incredibly dorky or cool awesome, I can't decide.

 

[roguerouge]

Anything but music effects: it's really hard to describe "songs" that last six seconds then have a lingering effect for 30 seconds. It doesn't get much easier when it's a lute being played and you describe it as a power chord.

Illusion, charm, social skills, jack of all trades... just not music.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Hmm.

Some want him to have music. Others don't care for it.
Some want him to remain a Jack of All Trades. Others want him specialized in a role.
Some think his buffs are powerful. Others think they are unnecessary.

It seems that regardless of which direction they take him, some people are gonna be disappointed.

The 3e Bard is just too versatile for his own good it seems. He can become an Enchanter, Archer, Light Infantry (using illusions for defense), or Chameleon that can switch roles at the drop of a hat without affecting his abilities to buff the party significantly.