What makes a successful superhero game?

[A_Carrington]

P&PUE for me. If "Batman can fight Superman" is the metric, then it passes easily. If Superman attacks with fists or eye lasers, Bruce can defend with martial arts or evasion. If they've both invested the same amount of character creation resource, they're evenly matched. And Bruce can get preparation, danger sense, vanish, lightning reflexes, master of disguise, armor, deflection, resources, weapons, and gadgets to even the playing field - all distinct options supported by the rules.

 

[Aldarc]

I think the last time I checked in with Iceman he was one of the most powerful mutants in the world because he could become ice, snow, or cold and teleport anywhere there was ice, snow, or cold and reform his body. Good to see him get such a glow up.

I'll be honest, but the rampant power creep of characters, particularly with a lot of the X-Men, is one of the things that increasingly turned me off about superhero comics. (That and a lot of the "Let's kill superhero X" for publicity in the '90s.)

 

[overgeeked]

I'll be honest, but the rampant power creep of characters, particularly with a lot of the X-Men, is one of the things that increasingly turned me off about superhero comics. (That and a lot of the "Let's kill superhero X" for publicity in the '90s.)

I was working in a comic shop in the mid-to-late 90s. All the Liefeld art, reboots, character deaths and resurrections, revamps, issue #1s, etc. It was a terrible time to be a comics fan. I still think June 4, 1991 was the end of an age in comics. The last Uncanny X-Men written by Chris Claremont in his epic 16-year run was published.

 

[Some Dude]

I'll be honest, but the rampant power creep of characters, particularly with a lot of the X-Men, is one of the things that increasingly turned me off about superhero comics. (That and a lot of the "Let's kill superhero X" for publicity in the '90s.)

I am not a fan of character advancement in superhero RPGs. I was an '80s Marvel kid, and powers stayed fairly consistent. If or when a character's power level changed, it often meant trouble! Speaking of deaths...

I was working in a comic shop in the mid-to-late 90s. All the Liefeld art, reboots, character deaths and resurrections, revamps, issue #1s, etc. It was a terrible time to be a comics fan. I still think June 4, 1991 was the end of an age in comics. The last Uncanny X-Men written by Chris Claremont in his epic 16-year run was published.

...and resurrections, I remember when X-Factor #1 came out. The Dark Phoenix saga had been one of the most, if not the most, dramatic moments in comics for me. Jean Grey

Spoiler

being alive, and never having been Phoenix in the first place

, felt like such a cheat. Like Patrick Duffy in the shower level cheat (only the oldsters gonna get that one). It felt crass, like a move that was made purely for commercial reasons. This impression wasn't helped by the survey tucked inside that issue. I remember one of the questions being literally, "How many X-titles would you buy a month?"

 

[dbm]

I am not a fan of character advancement in superhero RPGs.

This is an element where I think Savage Worlds Super Powers Companion strikes a good balance. By RAW a character’s powers (and the level of those powers) is fixed, but the skill with which you use those powers can increase.

 

[overgeeked]

Advancement is superhero fiction is so weird. Sometimes there’s an obvious skill or power increase over time while sometimes there’s nothing for years or decades, then a massive leap ahead. Or the perennial favorite of complete power swaps. It just doesn’t map to standard RPG expectations of advancement.

 

[jian]

Advancement is superhero fiction is so weird. Sometimes there’s an obvious skill or power increase over time while sometimes there’s nothing for years or decades, then a massive leap ahead. Or the perennial favorite of complete power swaps. It just doesn’t map to standard RPG expectations of advancement.

There are some clear examples of advancement in superhero comics but they’re mostly to do with growing up. Nightwing is a better fighter, detective, and leader than Robin. The O5 X-men are all notably more powerful or accomplished than their teenage selves. That sort of thing. But otherwise, even with characters whose concepts are based on relentless improvement (such as Iron Man) there isn’t actually a narratively impactful increase in power levels.

 

[Theory of Games]

Well. "Narrative" relates to storytelling and if a character gets more capable, you can now tell different kinds of stories. I think the "power-ups" are for that exact reason? I mean the original Superman was fighting bank robbers and corrupt officials, then a few decades later he's fighting an entire alien invasion by himself! Jean Grey was kinda boring until she turned into Phoenix - then she's devouring neutron galaxies!

I'm sure writers get tired of the same old characters in the same old stories and you can only be so creative. Changing the character opens new doors for writers and rpg groups

 

[chuckdee]

There are some clear examples of advancement in superhero comics but they’re mostly to do with growing up. Nightwing is a better fighter, detective, and leader than Robin. The O5 X-men are all notably more powerful or accomplished than their teenage selves. That sort of thing. But otherwise, even with characters whose concepts are based on relentless improvement (such as Iron Man) there isn’t actually a narratively impactful increase in power levels.

Just talking Iron Man since he's in the example, Extremis was such a power up and made such an impact to his power level that they had to off him to put it in check.

 

[overgeeked]

There are some clear examples of advancement in superhero comics but they’re mostly to do with growing up. Nightwing is a better fighter, detective, and leader than Robin. The O5 X-men are all notably more powerful or accomplished than their teenage selves. That sort of thing. But otherwise, even with characters whose concepts are based on relentless improvement (such as Iron Man) there isn’t actually a narratively impactful increase in power levels.

Mostly, yeah. Take Superman as the big counter example. He was already an adult in his first appearance in 1938 and all he's got is strength, invulnerability, speed, and can jump 1/8 of a mile. In 1939 he gets x-ray vision and super hearing. In 1940 telescopic vision, microscopic vision, and super breath are added. By 1943 he can fly and gains a weakness to Kryptonite. Heat vision doesn't show up until 1949. It goes nuts from there with time travel, mind control, erasing memories, unlimited strength speed and regeneration, etc. Freezing breath shows up in 1959. On and on and on.

I guess that's what a superhero PC looks like in a Monty Haul game.

Just talking Iron Man since he's in the example, Extremis was such a power up and made such an impact to his power level that they had to off him to put it in check.

Or any of the Hulk- or Thor-Buster armors he's made over the years. If it were an RPG those would be permanent upgrades rather than one-offs or emergency use only. That's the other part of the equation. The source material and the nature of RPGs and gamers. They always want power ups, any and all increases in power must be permanent. And if it's not enough power fast enough, then it's "this game sucks" or some other clever response. I dunno, maybe settle down. You're already playing a superhero. It's the ultimate power fantasy. Relax.