What makes a successful superhero game?

[Micah Sweet]

I'm thinking of the Endgame movie where the spaceship is raining down missiles on everyone and they are all hiding and such, then Ms Marvel comes to just fly through the ship and take everything out. Begs the question of why she couldn't just fly through Thanos to end the whole problem. It was a letdown to me. The game needs to have a way to let cosmic universe supers play at the table with local neighborhood supers. There is a big gap between the two. Like someone showing up at the D&D table with a 20th level PC when the rest of you are 3rd level.

Those groups do tend to operate mostly in separate titles for a reason, to be fair.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My personal experience is that the former reliably preserve a "superhero"-type experience, that actually feels like the comics, movies and so on. The very best-designed (albeit highly-specific) superhero RPG I've ever seen, MASKS, is clearly this type.

Whereas the latter is always, always living near the edge of 'descending' into being The Boys! And the more "simulationist" it is, the inherently closer it is to that edge!

Some it's a few feet from the edge, because literally all the players are very studiously making their superheroes act heroically, and the GM is doing the same with the villains, making sure that Badguy Hulk Expy doesn't just one-shot incompetently played Batman Expy, even though he easily could, and so on, and maybe the system has some kind of narrative tokens or the like to help with that. But sometimes they're absolutely teetering on that edge (esp. with say, GURPS Supers or the like), or just straight up falling over it directly into The Boys-land.

And maybe The Boys-land is where you want to live! But I feel like that's not actually a "superhero" setting, that's a sort of "gods and monsters" deal that deconstructs (and does not reconstruct) superhero comics as part of its aesthetic.

(I shouldn't exclude the middle too much here - like, M&M is pretty firmly in the middle imho, at least last I looked at it.)

I prefer the middle as well. I feel MSH lived there pretty well too.

 

[cranberry]

I'm thinking of the Endgame movie where the spaceship is raining down missiles on everyone and they are all hiding and such, then Ms Marvel comes to just fly through the ship and take everything out. Begs the question of why she couldn't just fly through Thanos to end the whole problem.

This bothered me a lot too.

After all, even she had a 50/50 chance of disappearing from existence.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think the two most important are lots of choices for creating a character, and balance.

For any TTRPG, balance seems like an obvious answer, but for a superhero game, it's critical.

I mean, if everyone can build a Superman, there is no challenge.

Anyone can build a Superman IMO, if they are given enough points to work with. That's balance so far as I'm concerned.

 

[cranberry]

Anyone can build a Superman IMO, if they are given enough points to work with. That's balance so far as I'm concerned.

Sure, but that defeats the purpose of the game if you create an unstoppable character (under normal circumstances)

Yes, you could toss in a Kryptonian adversary, but they effectively cancel each other out, essentially making it a fight between two normies.

 

[Theory of Games]

People throw around Superman but let's be real: most ttrpgs don't let you create anyone as powerful as Kal-El. He can literally move planets around the galaxy Most superhero ttrpgs have a "glass ceiling" that allows you to create powerful characters, but not that Superman-Green Lantern-Dr. Strange-Phoenix level that can break the fictional setting into pieces.

Which comes to what I think makes a great superhero ttrpg: rules for character limitations and weaknesses. If a system doesn't have rules designed to give a character a weakness or handicap, it's flawed. One consistent aspect of superheroes and supervillains is they ALL have a weakness of some kind. Something that stops them in their tracks and forces them to rethink their tactics. Superman can get wasted by kryptonite and magic. Green Lantern is useless vs. the color yellow. Dr. Strange has the normal casting limitations of a wizard. Phoenix couldn't fully control her powers.

The more powerful the character, the more simple yet devastating the weakness. If a superhero ttrpg has this baked into the rules, it has potential.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, but that defeats the purpose of the game if you create an unstoppable character (under normal circumstances)

Yes, you could toss in a Kryptonian adversary, but they effectively cancel each other out, essentially making it a fight between two normies.

Except all the superpowers though, right?

 

[overgeeked]

I think the two most important are lots of choices for creating a character, and balance.

The two best ways to get those choices are infinite character creation rules or freeform character creation.

For any TTRPG, balance seems like an obvious answer, but for a superhero game, it's critical.

I don't think it's possible to balance superheroes mechanically. Unless your mechanics are purely about story rather than physics. There's just no way to make Green Arrow equally mechanically meaningful and important as the Flash in a game that even attempts physics simulation.

I mean, if everyone can build a Superman, there is no challenge.

Sure there is. Superman gets challenged all the time. His comics would get cancelled if there were no readers. Readers aren't going to put up with boring stories for long. If there's no challenge, there's no story, so...

Sure, but that defeats the purpose of the game if you create an unstoppable character (under normal circumstances)

He's only unstoppable if you're limiting the conversation to physical might and excluding everything in the wide DCU that can kick Superman's ass.

Yes, you could toss in a Kryptonian adversary, but they effectively cancel each other out, essentially making it a fight between two normies.

Yes, that's one option among hundreds. Kryptonite, Kryptonians (or any of the dozen equivalents), any of the characters explicitly more powerful than Superman, etc. And that's just sticking with physical stuff. Switch to puzzles or mysteries. Switch to magical opponents. Switch to social encounters and problems. Switch to moral or ethical quandaries.

It's the Doctor Who problem in reverse. The Doctor is effectively infinitely smart so if given the chance will be able to solve any problem just by thinking about it...so the writers have spent the last 60 years making sure the Doctor doesn't have time to properly think until somewhere near the end of the story. And they do this by putting in an action-adventure story.

Same thing with Superman. Present a problem that can't be punched. It's literally that simple.

 

[cranberry]

Except all the superpowers though, right?

I don't follow Superman, but I assume all Kyptonians have the same superpowers, effectively canceling each other out.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't follow Superman, but I assume all Kyptonians have the same superpowers, effectively canceling each other out.

I've seen many Superman vs. Superman fights, and they all came out pretty cool. Worth doing I would say.

My favorite was the Battle of the Visions on Wandavision.