What makes setting lore "actually matter" to the players?

[Micah Sweet]

"average TTRPG is deeply invested in simulation and lore" factoid actually just statistical error. average TTRPG player cares minimally about lore and simulationism. Simulations Micah who lives on ENW & reads 3000 pages of lore a day is an outlier adn should not have be counted.

Well first of all, if I'm reading this strangely worded post correctly, it sounds like an insult. I'm sure you didn't mean it to be.

Secondly, how are you justifying your claims here about the average TTRPG and the average TTRPG player? In what way is this objectively stated opinion in any way more valid than mine?

 

[zakael19]

Well first of all, if I'm reading this strangely worded post correctly, it sounds like an insult. I'm sure you didn't mean it to be.

Secondly, how are you justifying your claims here about the average TTRPG and the average TTRPG player? In what way is this objectively stated opinion in any way more valid than mine?

Let me introduce you to a fantastic meme

 

[Micah Sweet]

Let me introduce you to a fantastic meme

Ok...

I don't recall seeing a statistic about RPGs being primarily a simulationist endeavor, so your initial statement (and your meme supporting it), doesn't really connect with my experience.

Still not a fan of being told no one should care about my preferences because in your opinion not enough people agree with me. Sounds very "popular = good" to me.

 

[Thomas Shey]

The more people like that, the more likely the hobby will turn that way in general. And I don't want that.

I'm not sure what makes you think that big parts of the hobby aren't already in that direction. As I said, it was 50 years ago. I mean from your POV the move away from simulation concerns probably wasn't ideal, but that ship also sailed a long time ago at this point.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In my opinion, the real thing that makes RPGs RPGs isn't "storytelling" but agency -- the ability to do (or try) anything.

Though to what degree that is, in practice, true can vary considerably depending on campaign type and structure. People playing most published adventures are almost certainly clear that the borders of that are anywhere from somewhat or very constrained, for example.

 

[zakael19]

Ok...

I don't recall seeing a statistic about RPGs being primarily a simulationist endeavor, so your initial statement (and your meme supporting it), doesn't really connect with my experience.

Still not a fan of being told no one should care about my preferences because in your opinion not enough people agree with me. Sounds very "popular = good" to me.

I was literally cracking a joke dude. I know you really enjoy showing up in threads and staking out your personal preference position and hammering away at it to let us know that these specific opinions are out there, but you do almost always come across as an outlier even in a relatively conservative and older skewing part of the hobby community.

So it felt like an appropriate use of a great meme.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm not sure what makes you think that big parts of the hobby aren't already in that direction. As I said, it was 50 years ago. I mean from your POV the move away from simulation concerns probably wasn't ideal, but that ship also sailed a long time ago at this point.

Oh I expect they are. But why would I want the trend to move further in that direction?

Is there a reason everyone seems bothered by me not wanting my preferences to become extinct? Seems pretty reasonable to me. I mean, if you want me to go away just say so.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I was literally cracking a joke dude. I know you really enjoy showing up in threads and staking out your personal preference position and hammering away at it to let us know that these specific opinions are out there, but you do almost always come across as an outlier even in a relatively conservative and older skewing part of the hobby community.

So it felt like an appropriate use of a great meme.

Fair enough. I really don't do memes, and I'm not great at teasing either to be honest. Sorry.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Oh I expect they are. But why would I want the trend to move further in that direction?

Is there a reason everyone seems bothered by me not wanting my preferences to become extinct? Seems pretty reasonable to me. I mean, if you want me to go away just say so.

I have to admit I'm confused about your preferences. Well, confused that you seem to like Shadowdark, which doesn't seem to fit with what I see you post in other threads. It's not very simulation-y.

But I hope you don't go away.

 

[Thomas Shey]

For me to actually matter the setting element must either (a) be something there that we can interact with and can adapt to what we say or do or (b) be something I have a significant belief will be burned to the ground without there being a reset button. Which is why I don't give a damn about the Forgotten Realms, Golarion, or most of the other big settings.

I'd suggest you're conflating at least two things together, there:

1. Published changes. Yeah, nothing you do is going to change those settings for the overall use, because they're published and what your GM does will have no effect on the publishers use of the setting (the only case I know of where a publisher tried to do something here was the first version of TORG, where you could submit information about what was happening in the game and the game managers would try to use the gestalt of that to partly drive how future events went), and;
2. Scope. Unless the GM is deliberately running something super-large in scope, its not likely whatever is going on is going to effect the whole setting anyway. Most games aren't using PCs as the fortold chosen ones that make or break the whole setting. Past that, I have no reason to believe (to pick the one I know a little better) that you couldn't pretty thoroughly wreck individual areas of Golarion by action or inaction. Its not that tightly woven, and even the people who try to pay attention to what's going on more globally have some reaction time problems that can come up. There have been too many localized catastrophes of relatively recent occurance for me to think otherwise. Some other large settings are similar.