D&D 5E (+)What Ubiquitous DnD Tropes Get It Totally Wrong?

[Charlaquin]

For the same reason we have "fallen angels" and not "risen demons". It's easier to be evil. Which is a whole other trope.

Ahh, but “it’s easier to be evil” leaves room for one willing to walk the hard path to be good. I have no problem with gnolls and orcs being predominantly evil, I only take issue with there being no possibility of individual examples of non-evil. If we can have Drizt, we should be able to have similar examples of good gnolls and orcs.

 

[Oofta]

Ahh, but “it’s easier to be evil” leaves room for one willing to walk the hard path to be good. I have no problem with gnolls and orcs being predominantly evil, I only take issue with there being no possibility of individual examples of non-evil. If we can have Drizt, we should be able to have similar examples of good gnolls and orcs.

Maybe it's just because I think Drizzt is such a Marty Sue that I have a knee jerk reaction against the whole angst-ridden emo trope good drow.

Or it's just because I'm old and I've never seen a reason to change my justification for orcs not being people in costume since the 70s.

In any case I simply don't have an issue with monsters being monsters even if they do look humanoid. To each their own.

 

[Charlaquin]

I mean, "genus" might be a little bit more accurate than sepcies sinch there are a bunch of diffetent types of elves with radically different characteristics (with the same note also going for dwarves and gnomes)

That just makes it even weirder that they can produce viable offspring with humans.

Trying to classify fantasy peoples with real-world taxonomy just doesn’t work.

 

[Oofta]

Nope. One is rational, the other is arbitrary.

Nothing wrong with “because I want it that way”, but it isn’t the same thing as a rational categorization distinction.

Well, my "rational categorization distinction" is that if the MM says a creature is CE they are.

Since this is all fiction I don't see how one fictional justification is any "better" than another.

 

[Oofta]

That just makes it even weirder that they can produce viable offspring with humans.

Trying to classify fantasy peoples with real-world taxonomy just doesn’t work.

Well we are talking about a universe where we have centaurs because people got busy with horses.

That, and it is justified in the background of half-orcs, it's a special magical blessing.

But I agree 100%. Trying to classify fantasy creatures with real-world taxonomy just doesn't work.

 

[Charlaquin]

Maybe it's just because I think Drizzt is such a Marty Sue that I have a knee jerk reaction against the whole angst-ridden emo trope good drow.

I mean, I don’t care for the character either, but he is a handy example of a character acting against the tendency of their people.

Or it's just because I'm old and I've never seen a reason to change my justification for orcs not being people in costume since the 70s.

Why does “aren’t universally evil” = “people in costumes?” And why do you never see this particular critique levied at non-evil humanoids like elves and dwarves?

In any case I simply don't have an issue with monsters being monsters even if they do look humanoid. To each their own.

They don’t just look humanoid, they are classified as humanoids. As well, they are consistently depicted as having society, culture, and the capacity for rational thought. They are a people. They may be a monstrous people, even an evil people in your world, and that’s your prerogative. But they are a people by any meaningful definition of the word.

 

[Oofta]

I mean, I don’t care for the character either, but he is a handy example of a character acting against the tendency of their people.


Why does “aren’t universally evil” = “people in costumes?” And why do you never see this particular critique levied at non-evil humanoids like elves and dwarves?


They don’t just look humanoid, they are classified as humanoids. As well, they are consistently depicted as having society, culture, and the capacity for rational thought. They are a people. They may be a monstrous people, even an evil people in your world, and that’s your prerogative. But they are a people by any meaningful definition of the word.

But again ... if being self-aware and intelligent means having free will then demons should have free will. I mean, I get it, they are born of evil ... but so are orcs.

But yes, it is a trope of D&D and fantasy in general that some creatures are inherently evil.

 

[Aldarc]

Xenomorphs are scary based on our fear of different and "other". As is the roots of racism.

This is a cool false equivalence that doesn't answer my questions.

For the same reason we have "fallen angels" and not "risen demons". It's easier to be evil. Which is a whole other trope.

Off the top of my head, there are a number of redeemed/risen demons in our hobby: Arushalae and Nocticula (Golarion) and Fall-From-Grace (Planescape). So maybe your understanding of demons in our hobby hasn't been updated since the days of Windows '98?

Since this is all fiction I don't see how one fictional justification is any "better" than another.

I can. The less racist and dehumanizing fiction is better.

 

[Charlaquin]

But again ... if being self-aware and intelligent means having free will then demons should have free will. I mean, I get it, they are born of evil ... but so are orcs.

It’s not “being born of evil” that makes demons not have free will. It’s being Outsiders. Celestials don’t have it either, or Fae, or Elementals, Devils, or Undead. Free will is a feature unique to natives of the material plane.

But yes, it is a trope of D&D and fantasy in general that some creatures are inherently evil.

And likewise that some creatures are inherently good. I find it inconsistent that people classify orcs as inherently evil but not dwarves as inherently good. Both are peoples created by a Parton deity, and I have seen no explanation given for why one is capable of acting contrary to its creator’s nature and the other is not.

You are also dodging the question of why “not inherently evil” = “people in costumes” and why this standard isn’t applied to elves, dwarves, and other non-evil, non-human races.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But again ... if being self-aware and intelligent means having free will then demons should have free will. I mean, I get it, they are born of evil ... but so are orcs.

But yes, it is a trope of D&D and fantasy in general that some creatures are inherently evil.

Again, the fact it’s a trope isn’t especially compelling or even relevant as a reply to “it’s a bad trope”.

And Elemental beings are not mortals. For a thousand reasons. Ignoring that distinction is nonsensical.