What's a Caster Without Spells To Do?

[Hussar]

Danny A - I totally agree that in AD&D it works. The Gandalf with a Staff attacker in AD&D isn't all that bad. The monsters deal such piddly damage that a decent Con wizard has a pretty good chance of standing up to a few attacks at least and is dealing damage that bites a significant percentage of HP.

But, against 3e creatures? I mean, the harpies have a charm range of 300 feet. You would have had to make three separate will saves against these things. The harpies had to fail three Ref saves as well for this to work and be all within the radius of the spell. Just how far were you throwing these rocks?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Standard short range- the harpies failed their Ref rolls, we made our Will saves. (No, we did not have a Bard.) That good fortune, combined with the astoundingly bad rolls we made in combat frustrated out DM immensely- hence his post-combat rant about how broken Entangle was.

The harpies were supposed to charm us so something else would get to use us for some nefarious purpose. IOW, this outcome derailed the adventure a bit.

And as you and I have discussed before, in the context of talking about RttToEE and how we never experienced the 15 minutes workday, the guy who plays wizards uses his non-spell options all the time. That is as 3.5Ed as it gets.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

And as you and I have discussed before, in the context of talking about RttToEE and how we never experienced the 15 minutes workday, the guy who plays wizards uses his non-spell options all the time. That is as 3.5Ed as it gets.

It's the "15 minute adventuring day" that I want to avoid (Refering back to the Richard comment), I don't want the entire party to revolve around the Wizard needing to rest. Since I'm aiming for War Weaver, the other players will likely be more dependant upon the Wizard for those yummy buffs, and I don't want everything to grind to a halt if/when I run out.

I really, really like the idea of Crafting Pearls of Power.

 

[Empirate]

Crafting Pearl of Power takes Caster Level 17... so not an option.

 

[Nagol]

Caster level is not a requirement for creation according to the errata.

 

[stevelabny]

I gotta admit, I don't understand the whole, "Pull out your crossbow" thing.

Do people just stick with really low level monsters all the time where doing nickel damage actually matters? Most critters in 3e have about 10 HP/CR, give or take. By CR 4, nothing a wizard can do with a weapon is going to affect that combat in the slightest.

I don't get this at all. Even if a monster has 80 HP. And the entire party of four casters has crossbows and does average damage (4.5 per round)... you can kill it in 5 rounds. Mix that party up to be balanced and just two of your attacks can easily take 10% of a monster. And you always have the chance to crit. A crossbow crit can do as much as 24 points of damage.

Just because you're not doing the MOST damage in the party doesn't suddenly mean you're useless.

Or to put this another way... a successful hit with a crossbow is better than casting a save or die/save or suck spell and the monster making its save.


edit: OF damage. not DO damage :/

 

[TwoSix]

I don't get this at all. Even if a monster has 80 HP. And the entire party of four casters has crossbows and does average damage (4.5 per round)... you can kill it in 5 rounds. Mix that party up to be balanced and just two of your attacks can easily take 10% of a monster. And you always have the chance to crit. A crossbow crit can do as much as 24 points do damage.

Just because you're not doing the MOST damage in the party doesn't suddenly mean you're useless.

Or to put this another way... a successful hit with a crossbow is better than casting a save or die/save or suck spell and the monster making its save.

I do have to agree with this. Hit points and damage are discrete. The chance that any one attack at those levels puts an enemy at <8 HP is certainly not 0%. The crossbow damage(even 4-5) increases the chance that any one hit will be the hit that drops them.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Things Mr. Welch can no longer do in an RPG

82. Victory laps after killing the dragon with my d2 bow is considered in poor taste.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's the "15 minute adventuring day" that I want to avoid (Refering back to the Richard comment), I don't want the entire party to revolve around the Wizard needing to rest. Since I'm aiming for War Weaver, the other players will likely be more dependant upon the Wizard for those yummy buffs, and I don't want everything to grind to a halt if/when I run out.

I really, really like the idea of Crafting Pearls of Power.

Hussar and I have danced this tango more than once. He is incredulous at my assertion that the 15MWD is something I have never seen in person, and that, IMHO, it is an artifact of playstyle.

To clarify: I believe the biggest reason I have never seen the 15MWD in my gaming experience is that the DMs I have played under- in 3 states, in 5 cities, and over 30 years in the hobby- don't stop the world merely because the casters are out of spells. IOW, if you "go nova" in encounter #2, and you are behind enemy lines, he will not let his "living world" act differently than it ought to. Patrols will not cease; monsters still wander; traps trigger.

Because of this, players who play caster quickly realize that they ought to conserve spells, just like any other ablative resource. You cast enough to get the job done, and then no more.

Because of this playstyle, the dude who played the wizard in our RttToEE campaign had no crafting feats, and one wand (of some low-level attack spell) found during the adventure, but still managed to have potent spells left in his arsenal when the party made camp.

All that said...

If I were a buffing caster, I'd see if I could get my hands on a Metamagic Extension rod and a ring of Wizardry.

 

[Grogg of the North]

To clarify: I believe the biggest reason I have never seen the 15MWD in my gaming experience is that the DMs I have played under- in 3 states, in 5 cities, and over 30 years in the hobby- don't stop the world merely because the casters are out of spells. IOW, if you "go nova" in encounter #2, and you are behind enemy lines, he will not let his "living world" act differently than it ought to. Patrols will not cease; monsters still wander; traps trigger.

I've had someone try the 15MWD on me once and only once. The group probed the prison camp's defenses and retreated. When they returned the next day they found the camp empty except for all the prisoners who were executed and arranged like mannequins. As the PCs approached each one they found that they had signs that said things like "Why didn't you save us." A few even had things like magic mouth so the corpses could berate the PCs. The PCs were persona non grata after that for a LONG time.