What's the Best Fix for Power Attack?

[Driss]

I'm seeing problems with Power Attack right now in my Age of Worms campaign which is at 15th level. It has been a problem since they were level 11 or so. I've had to put a few strictures on it so that the fighter isn't the only one dealing significant damage.

Edit: Also note it is still a minor problem even though I banned floaty shields.

Hey, look! I tried to sneak around my ban by creating an alt! Wasn't that clever of me?

 

[Piratecat]

AoW monsters tend to have very low ACs...

And you know what? When you have a 3 day ban, and you try to sneak around it with an alt, you win a permanent ban!

Which, in fact, is what has just happened here.

Now, carry on with the thread, please.

 

[airwalkrr]

Personally I disagree with 1:1 making the feat useless. I personally have my own fix, but 1:1 wouldn't make it useless.

I agree. What fix do you use incidentally?

 

[RigaMortus2]

And you know what? When you have a 3 day ban, and you try to sneak around it with an alt, you win a permanent ban!

Which, in fact, is what has just happened here.

Now, carry on with the thread, please.

pwned

 

[QuaziquestGM]

i tend to stay out of house rule debates, but I'm confused about something: Why does any one object to a high level fighter doing more damage than a fireball? Are they doing the math right? Are they counting the total damage done to all targets?

Thought that this was the balance between fighters and wizards. A fighter (high level) stands next to a guy and hits him 5 times with a sword and kills him. Meanwhile the wizard blasts 1-however many are in the area of effect for 1/3 or more of their hp. The wizard gets less damage, but spreads it among multiple targets.

Also, the fighter has to beat AC. The Wizard only has to beat reflex save.

Another point, a fighter is a fighter at level 1 and is the same beast at level 25. Beat AC and take away HP from 5-10 ft away. At higher levels a wizard has other options to kill or totally negate an opponent (or 6) with out doing any damage at all.

For example, in a recent epic game it wasn't unusual for the turn sequence to go like this.

GM: "The monsters are here."
ME: "I cast Gate. Under those 4's Feet. to the elemental plane of.....oh....air. Move action, I hide behind the fighter and the monk."
GM: Jaw drops as my elc 22 gnome takes out 1/3 of the elc 26 monsters before the elc 25 melee types can use their massively overpowered gm disigned weapons of mass melee distruction. Stammers, looks at PHP spell discription, raises eyebows, "ok, the remaining monster charge" 5 min of dice rolling.
John: Power attacking.......( at this point i leave to get the pizza, and get back 45 min later to hear John's total damage for the round)
Steve: Flury of blows........( I go make the salad knowing that i'm not going to be needed for another 15 minutes. [steve is fast at math])
ME: Wall of stone gerrymandering around these 3.......
1.5 hours later
ME: summon monster, huge earth elemental...(roll) 3 of them
Next round, John opens a fresh pad of paper, steve changes the battery in the calculator
My earth elements earth glide though the wall of stone and attack and graple, I start summoning more of them.
Next round. Monk and fighter stand outside wall of stone as monster fight elementals. Elementals earth glide them into the floor and leave them there.

My elementals did maybe 220 points of direct damage before entombing the monsters. The ones in the elemental plane of air are just floating there with no way of getting back. The melee guys did....oh a couple thousand points of damage each.

(this is a mostly true story with only slight exageration. I left out the druid soloing the gaint undead ooze with wall of fire and sunburst on the other side of the room)

My piont is, it isn't proper to base whether or not a melee ablity is broken by comparing it to a spell ability. Melee ablites either do damage, stunning, or knock back/down. That is it. Spells can do anything, and the effects are always circumstancial.

This needs to be considered when deciding if or how a melee ability needs to be fixed or rebalanced.

 

[RigaMortus2]

i tend to stay out of house rule debates, but I'm confused about something: Why does any one object to a high level fighter doing more damage than a fireball? Are they doing the math right? Are they counting the total damage done to all targets?

Thought that this was the balance between fighters and wizards. A fighter (high level) stands next to a guy and hits him 5 times with a sword and kills him. Meanwhile the wizard blasts 1-however many are in the area of effect for 1/3 or more of their hp. The wizard gets less damage, but spreads it among multiple targets.

Also, the fighter has to beat AC. The Wizard only has to beat reflex save.

Another point, a fighter is a fighter at level 1 and is the same beast at level 25. Beat AC and take away HP from 5-10 ft away. At higher levels a wizard has other options to kill or totally negate an opponent (or 6) with out doing any damage at all.

But you also have to ask yourself, "How often can a Wizard cast fireball (and similiar spells)?" and "How often can a Fighter Power Attack?"

There are far more ways to protect against magic than there is against melee. I know of at least 1 4th level spell that will completely negate any 3rd level wizard spell or lower. Fireball schmireball

 

[airwalkrr]

This needs to be considered when deciding if or how a melee ability needs to be fixed or rebalanced.

I will be polite since you were polite in your question.

It already is taken into account.

A fighter gets better hp, better base attack, and better weapon and armor proficiencies than the wizard. A wizard gets effects that can damage multiple enemies.

A fighter can use his primary means of dealing damage indefinitely. A wizard has finite power, or he has to spend money to keep his power up (wand/staff charges).

There is already balance there. Simply comparing damage potential is only one side of the coin. Unless you use a variant like recharge magic where wizards can use their highest level spells in every combat, there is already balance between the two. Even recharge magic only tips the balance in the wizard's favor, but does not change the fact that a fighter still has better hp, bab, armor, and weapons.

Now please stop hijacking my thread. If you want to have an extended discussion on why some people consider PA to be overpowering, post a question in the Rules or General forum.

 

[Maldor]

i find the best way to balance power attack is with a longbow and farshot they should be fiarly weak by the time power attack comes into play

 

[airwalkrr]

i find the best way to balance power attack is with a longbow and farshot they should be fiarly weak by the time power attack comes into play

lol

 

[Warbringer]

How about the max penalty that you can take on your to hit is equal to your strength bonus?

I also hr if you take weapon finess, no danage bonus from strength, I mean, come on.

I also like x1.5 or x1.0