D&D General What's wrong with Perception?

[DEFCON 1]

Yeah, exactly like that. I knew it was a variant, but I haven't met anyone else who uses it.

Hello. My name is DEFCON 1. I have used this Variant rules as well as amended the skill list to give me all the skills I want in the formats I've wanted since the beginning of the game's existence.

I would recommend it.

"Houserule everything... RAW is dumb."

- DEFCON 1

[emoji3]

 

[Plaguescarred]

High Perception help prevent surprise and counter hiding, which people like to avoid being unable to act in the first round of combat, or be forced to guess a target's location. Perception is also useful to search for hidden things, secret passages etc so its hands down the best skill both in and out of combat. And people generally want the best for their character.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah, exactly like that. I knew it was a variant, but I haven't met anyone else who uses it.

Before moving to Ability Check Proficiency, we moved skills around various abilities whenever it was appropriate.

So, now you have met at least one who used to, anyway.

A lot of folks on these forums seem to. I certainly do.

Ok, now you've met two.

Which is funny, because every DM I know does use it. It's probably because most of us have played other RPGs that have this as part of the base game, so it's natural for us.

Fine. Three.

I use it on occasion.

I have used this Variant rules as well

Sigh... I give up, I'm like number five or something...

Again half the problem is that Perception is on of the few skills usable in the combat pillar.

5e, doesn't have "Roll Intimidate to demoralize the foe and get an advantage" or "Roll Heal to end poison" like 3e or 4e did as a standard rule used at many tables.

Yeah, stuff like this would be useful and FWIW I do allow these uses of skills, but it would be better "baked into the system."

Personally I think 5e could have a Browbeat (Str), Dungeoneering (Int) Senses (Con), and Streetwise (Cha) as "duplicate" skills for Intimidate, Perception, Survival, and Stealth

Roll Perception or Senses

This creates a level of granularity that (personally) I would find more annoying than to any advantage.

Why do this when STR (Intimidate) is just as viable as CHA (Intimidate)?

 

[Helldritch]

I made perception the general skill to go to when you want to be a generalist but weaker when an other skill could do the trick. The DC of check is raised by three an other skill could be used.

Want to see the trip wire set on the wilderness path? Perception will help you but survival would be more appropriated. So it would be DC 13 for survival and 16 for perception.

Same place but with bugbears? Perception will help you more. DC 13 with perception and 16 with survival.

Want to search for a secret door? Sure perception will help you find it but to open it you need investigation. Knowing it is there does not mean you know how to open it.

Searching for a magical trap. Perception DC +5 but an arcana check will be at normal. I even give advantage if you use detect magic.

Want to check if there is a pit trap in the corridor. Stone masonry will help you. Perception too but at +3. If you have both skills, I will lower the DC by three.

But to this, the DM must have a very precise idea of who got which skills at his table. I have a copy of each characters at my place and a small sheet on which all skill levels are resumed. It does not slow down the game this way. Players do not need to ask me if I took their skills into consideration.

In addition, having a bit more skills in usage and using different stats makes some feats such as skilled much more interesting as players now see the value in not being a one trick poney. I have fighters using intimidation during combat to give foes a reason to flee and even get an advantage on attack. In effect, the targeted foe is now afflicted with the frightened condition. It may not be in the rule, but it is certainly cool. The fighter may even use intimidation with his strength score if he lands a hit or charisma if no hit is landed. And yet, quite a few fighters now do not ditch charisma as they used to. In fact, many use a new array 15, 14, 13 , 10,10,10. An 8 is seen as too restrictive when you use combined skills and stats this way.

 

[James Gasik]

When I said, lol, that I had never met anyone who used that variant, I guess I should state I have never played with any DM's who use that variant, so I have no firsthand experience with it. Like I said, I have played with games that don't match skills with set ability scores, but the vast majority of games I've played do match skills with set ability scores.

It probably would be better if this was the default for 5e (and many other games), but until more DM's in the wild embrace the concept, you're going to have people who think "strong characters get Athletics, agile characters get Acrobatics", and "a low bonus on a skill check is a waste of time", irregardless of how untrue that may be.

 

[Bill Zebub]

(see also everyone who wants to use Acrobatics when Athletics is really more appropriate because their DEX based character didn’t bother to take Athletics).

If you're talking about the usual climbing/jumping/running/swimming situations then I agree that the word "athletics" is more applicable than "acrobatics". The problem comes with DMs insisting that Strength is the only ability score that can be used with the Athletics skill. And, to be fair, if you don't read the books carefully it seems like that's the rule. But depending on context the check should, imo, often be Dexterity(Athletics) or Constitution(Athletics).

Not to mention Persuasion(Intelligence), Intimidation(Strength), etc.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Well, I have a rant on passive perception. Not the question here though, for the regular active perception, yeah, I get it’s different technically than investigation, but I play they’re interchangeable. Wanna check out a place, either works. But I play a real round easy edges shaved off dnd.

I've considered only using Perception passively, and only using Investigation actively, in both cases using whichever score (Wis or Int) is higher. If Dex and Str are effectively interchangeable for attacks, with the logic that it's two different approaches to combat, then I think it makes sense that Wis and Int imply two different approaches to scanning your surroundings. One is methodical, and one is intuitive.

 

[rooneg]

If you're talking about the usual climbing/jumping/running/swimming situations then I agree that the word "athletics" is more applicable than "acrobatics". The problem comes with DMs insisting that Strength is the only ability score that can be used with the Athletics skill. And, to be fair, if you don't read the books carefully it seems like that's the rule. But depending on context the check should, imo, often be Dexterity(Athletics) or Constitution(Athletics).

Not to mention Persuasion(Intelligence), Intimidation(Strength), etc.

Oh, I agree completely. The skill system in D&D would work a lot better in practice if it was more explicit in the PHB that skills can and should be paired with different attributes depending on the situation.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've considered only using Perception passively, and only using Investigation actively, in both cases using whichever score (Wis or Int) is higher. If Dex and Str are effectively interchangeable for attacks, with the logic that it's two different approaches to combat, then I think it makes sense that Wis and Int imply two different approaches to scanning your surroundings. One is methodical, and one is intuitive.

I've considered something like this as well, but with the "passively" just meaning "in the background, always on", not the way the designers used it.

 

[nevin]

the

1. DMs gate information behind Perception checks that should just be part of their description of the environment.
2. DMs treat Perception like always-on radar instead of a possible bonus on a check to resolve a declared action.

ding ding. a winner. Perception should be only applicable when the players are directly looking at some specific area or thing. Instead it get's used as the can they notice anything stat. perception rolls imo should only be used when the player specifically states they are examining something . Not just a general roll.