D&D 5E What's your ideal Fighter damage ratio?

[Salamandyr]

OK, 100 points of damage. I think damage for a fighter with a one handed sword at maximum level should be about 40-50 hp for one attack, with about a 75% hit chance against a standard opponent. So let's say 50 points of damage, since it makes the percentages come out nice.

5 points, or 10% comes from Strength bonus. That's pretty reasonable.

About 5 from the weapon, so about 15%

The rest, about 75% comes from skill.

Those ratios seem pretty good to me. However, in this case, a fighter who chooses to use a two handed sword gets a 4% increase in damage, so over two rounds he does 104 points of damage rather than 100. That doesn't seem like a good tradeoff for magic shield, which at top level is a somewhere between 10%-20% increase in defense. Ironically, at low levels, where weapons are a much greater component of overall damage, the shield is much less effective at increasing defense.

The easiest way to increase weapon damage as a percentage of overall damage would just be to lower the average damage of the figher. If it took him 4 rounds to do 100 points of damage, then weapon damage would average 20% of the total (as would strength bonus), leaving skill to account for 60%. And choosing to use a two handed sword over a one hand sword would average an 8% increase in overall damage.

 

[Stormonu]

I'll also note I like the idea of Str/Dex unlocking access to certain weapons without adding to damage.

Say,

Str <11 = 1d4 wpn dam max
Str 11-13 = 1d6 wpn dam max
Str 13-15 = 1d8 wpn dam max
Str 16-17 = 1d10 wpn dam max
Str 18-19 = 1d12 wpn dam max

This sort of fits the existing class weapon selection - the 10 Str wizard using a 1d4 dagger, the 11 Str rogue with a d6 short sword, the 13 Str cleric with a d8 mace and the fighter with long swords, bastard swords and two-handed swords and such.

Same perhaps with ranged weapons using Dex?

 

[Sadrik]

No, unlocking weapons is a bad idea. I do not want to see weapons that are unusable due to having a 12 str and not the requisite 13 str. Strength already accounts for this by you know having a lesser score... So if you have a 12 str and you wield a d12 weapon you do d12+1 instead of whatever if you had a higher strength.

100 damage per round is more damage than a wizard can do with their limited daily resources. I think upper limits of fighter capabilities should be 1d12 +5 magic (for damage I have no problems with a +5 sword) +10 character skill (feats and class features) +10 character stat (yes I think superhuman strength is good for the game). This takes it into the low 30s, then multiple attacks on top of that so I can see a, super buffed out fighter doing 100 damage or so per round. More than likely though they would be doing about 25 per hit, with 3 attacks at that level that would be about 75 damage if they all hit.

 

[Sekhmet]

1) Variable
2) Variable
3) 50%.

 

[steenan]

I'd go with something like 30% strength, 30% weapon, 40% skill or something similar. Similar amount of damage from each source. I also assume that both weapon-based part and skill-based part are rolled dice, while strength gives static modifier.

This way, each listed factor matters, but none of them dominates. In other words, if a character is of only average strength, or uses a small weapon, or spends expertise dice on non-damaging maneuvers, the damage is significantly lower, but not so low that it makes the character useless. Combining any two of these situations is a very big decrease, though.

To the damage split described above, I would add the following two traits:
- Stat modifiers affecting damage, but not to-hit. Strong characters deal more damage with most weapons; dexterous characters with light weapons that allow for finesse. But nobody is much better or worse at hitting enemies.
- Weapons offer different keywords, built-in maneuvers (ones that don't require spending character building resources to access them) or something similar. Damage is not the most important difference between weapon types, so there are no strictly better and strictly worse weapons. The same character may prefer different weapons in different situations.

 

[keterys]

As a hypothetical option - clearly not what's going on with expertise dice, at least right now - multiplying all bonuses and dice out to maintain percentages from first level might not be too bad.

For example, if you deal 1d8 + 4 damage at level 1... why not 5d8 + 20 at a later level? Course, it's dnd so it might be more like (1d8 + 5 (Str) + 3 (Enh))*5 = 5d8 + 40 instead... but the concept still holds. It makes it harder to apply a percentage to skill, since skill would be a multiplier of all damage, but I think it would work.

 

[Markn]

I'll also note I like the idea of Str/Dex unlocking access to certain weapons without adding to damage.

Say,

Str <11 = 1d4 wpn dam max
Str 11-13 = 1d6 wpn dam max
Str 13-15 = 1d8 wpn dam max
Str 16-17 = 1d10 wpn dam max
Str 18-19 = 1d12 wpn dam max

This sort of fits the existing class weapon selection - the 10 Str wizard using a 1d4 dagger, the 11 Str rogue with a d6 short sword, the 13 Str cleric with a d8 mace and the fighter with long swords, bastard swords and two-handed swords and such.

Same perhaps with ranged weapons using Dex?

I think there is some merit to this. In another thread I suggested that weapons should have standardized damages. Light deal d4, simple d6, one handed martial deal d8 and two handed martial deal d10, etc. this is simply another way of slicing the pie. In conjunction with this I think that the sacred cow that certain classes only know how to use certain weapons needs to go and this idea makes that work nicely. Wizards usually only use daggers because their str score is low. Same with rogues and even clerics with the weapons they are allowed. In no edition has there been much benefit to having an 18 str score for a wizard but this idea rewards someone who sees the concept of the burly wizard or the thug rogue who wields a war hammer instead of a short sword. I also think that it is elegant in the sense that if a player bumps this stat on level 4, for example, it then opens new options for the player since he now is capable of using new weapons - in short it simulates character growth nicely.

Returning to the thread topic, I'd like to see skill be the most determining factor in damage expressed as multiples of the weapon die - 2w, 3w, etc. I'm open to an ability mod either providing some extra damage or alternatively determining what further tactical options are available.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Simple question: Let's say a high-level fighter with 20 Strength and a longsword (d8 weapon dice) deals 100 points of damage (possibly over two or three hits in a fight). Of that 100 points of damage, how many points should ideally come from :

1. His raw Strength bonus (+5)?
2. His weapon dice (d8)?
3. His skill (represented by Martial Damage Dice and Martial Damage Bonuses)?

1. 50%
2. 50%
3. 0%

I don't think "skill" should directly increase damage, instead, I think it should make you more accurate or increase damage indirectly via giving you more attacks per round, etc. Yes, this means I am against martial damage dice. If we absolutely must have martial dice or some equivalent in the game, I'd vote for a 33/33/33% split between the three.

 

[keterys]

I think it should make you more accurate or increase damage indirectly via giving you more attacks per round, etc.

More attacks per round is effectively more damage dealt.

It's not very elegant, though - it makes jumps in damage very sudden. Ie, like "nothing for 5 levels, then almost double" sudden.

 

[Ratskinner]

I'll also note I like the idea of Str/Dex unlocking access to certain weapons without adding to damage.

Say,

Str <11 = 1d4 wpn dam max
Str 11-13 = 1d6 wpn dam max
Str 13-15 = 1d8 wpn dam max
Str 16-17 = 1d10 wpn dam max
Str 18-19 = 1d12 wpn dam max

This sort of fits the existing class weapon selection - the 10 Str wizard using a 1d4 dagger, the 11 Str rogue with a d6 short sword, the 13 Str cleric with a d8 mace and the fighter with long swords, bastard swords and two-handed swords and such.

Same perhaps with ranged weapons using Dex?

Tack on something about using two-hands yielding a category boost, and I'm there. (Maybe even have some kind of feat or Fighter feature give them a boost, too.)