D&D (2024) What's your opinion on the standardization of Spellcasters?

[UngainlyTitan]

I hate the standardisation of spell lists. I really like Warlocks and part of that is their unique spells. Hex and Armor of Agathys and such. Yes there are some subclasses that get some of them, and ways to get some of them with feats, but they remain rare outside of Warlocks. Now Bards can hex.
I don't like Clerics getting all the Paladin Smite spells, I don't like Paladins getting Spirit Guardians.
I don't like bards missing classic Bard spells.
I like that paladins and Rangers having unique spells and think their should be more of them (although most of the Ranger ones are not very good but that is another issue).
Standardising the list makes for less interesting classes rather than more fun and different experiences from each class.

But I do like that Ranger's became a prepared class rather than spells known. I don't understand why rangers were designed this way in the first place when Paladins are prepared casters. Rangers are not as powerful as Paladins and shouldn't be more limited in their spell choices. Many of the spells on the Druid/Ranger list are useful but rather situational, being focused on being in nature. It would help to be able to change them when you are in a city or dungeon or travelling in natural surroundings. Having played a Ranger recently I found it difficult to choose useful spells from their list. There are some obvious choices but after those it is not a great list. Being able to change things up would make it better although it needs more help than just that.

I think it is okay for Bards being changed from known to prepared although I don't think it is required, I don't really care either way for Bards, but they do need their own unique list.

I don't think it is good to make all classes the same in regards to preparing spells. I like there being differences in how you deal with spells. A difference between playing a Cleric vs a Sorcerer vs a Wizard.

Having an optional rule in the DMG for making all classes into Prepared Clasters would be a good idea. But don't homogenise all the class. It doesn't make everything interesting and more fun.

I think that the standardisation of spell list is a "put it out there and see who barks" kind of a thing. It may become official or it may not. We will not know until much later.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think that the standardisation of spell list is a "put it out there and see who barks" kind of a thing. It may become official or it may not. We will not know until much later.

If it was just the spell list I'd agree but with weapons also losing their class specific lists to class specific simple/martial #one handed martial finesse I think there may be more to it. Deliberator not this allows something like the soelljammwe box set & similar for other settings to include a player book with spells & weapons tuned to fit the themes and baseline power levels of a setting in addition to just drop in weapon & armor lists for different power & magic item availability. A lot of 5e's problems could have been handled long ago with that kind of swap ability.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I love the 3 spells lists, but it creates some weirdness.

Bards not having access to Power Word: Heal is pretty is a big no-no from me (yes, I know, Magical Secrets are a thing...but still...it was one of the few bard-only high level spell)

The new spell prep itself is quite streamlined and I think I'd favor it over the regular spell prep/spell know of the PHB for my casual players. But I think each class having its own spell list OR having 3 spell lists with a lot more exceptions would be best.

Or they could go the ''warlock's way'' and add a extra bonus spell list that you can choose to pick from (not always prepared).

1: Healing Word, Heroism
2: Aid, Lesser Restoration
3: Aura of Vitality, Mass Healing Word
4: Aura of Life, Freedom of Movement
5: Circle of Power, Greater Restoration
6: Heroes' Feast (Word of Recall?)
7: Regenerate
8: Anti-Magic Field
9: Power Word: Heal

Anyway, Words of Power and Aura spells should be usable by bards.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

If it was just the spell list I'd agree but with weapons also losing their class specific lists to class specific simple/martial #one handed martial finesse I think there may be more to it. Deliberator not this allows something like the soelljammwe box set & similar for other settings to include a player book with spells & weapons tuned to fit the themes and baseline power levels of a setting in addition to just drop in weapon & armor lists for different power & magic item availability. A lot of 5e's problems could have been handled long ago with that kind of swap ability.

Maybe, but they are standardising to a baseline. I think it is too early a to see quite where this is going.

 

[Baron Opal II]

We'll have a better idea when they release a full spellcaster and how they obtain / use spells.*

* No, the bard isn't a "full spellcaster". It's a frankenstinian amalgamation that's been inconsistent across editions. Hrumph.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Bard's been good and stable for two editions now. This is a destabilization of that and doesn't bode well for the traditional full casters.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I love the 3 spells lists, but it creates some weirdness.

Bards not having access to Power Word: Heal is pretty is a big no-no from me (yes, I know, Magical Secrets are a thing...but still...it was one of the few bard-only high level spell)

The new spell prep itself is quite streamlined and I think I'd favor it over the regular spell prep/spell know of the PHB for my casual players. But I think each class having its own spell list OR having 3 spell lists with a lot more exceptions would be best.

Or they could go the ''warlock's way'' and add a extra bonus spell list that you can choose to pick from (not always prepared).

1: Healing Word, Heroism
2: Aid, Lesser Restoration
3: Aura of Vitality, Mass Healing Word
4: Aura of Life, Freedom of Movement
5: Circle of Power, Greater Restoration
6: Heroes' Feast (Word of Recall?)
7: Regenerate
8: Anti-Magic Field
9: Power Word: Heal

Anyway, Words of Power and Aura spells should be usable by bards.

I'd really like the current playtest set up with the spells prepared returned to the current rules "you can prepare this number of spells, chosen from spells you have access to", and then also add a Classic Spells list that is a list of spells you can prepare regardless of their school or what list they're on, and then ditch Songs of Restoration.

Well, rewrite the Bard completely to rely less on spells and more on features like Song of Rest, but...

 

[Li Shenron]

There is good standardisation, to reduce  inequalities, and there is bad standardisation which reduces  diversity.

In this case I am afraid the main effect is the latter.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This is a destabilization of that and doesn't bode well for the traditional full casters.

Doesn't it? In what sense?

The most likely result that I can see is trad full casters get buffed, especially Wizards.

Druids - Primal list effectively means they're a class with their own spell list still.
Clerics - Divine list seems also like it means Clerics still get their own spell list, essentially.
Wizards - The Arcane list seems to be the Wizard list (if I'm wrong, interested to hear it!)

So that's the three most-trad full casters. Druids I expect will get a number of small tweaks that overall improve them. Clerics and Wizards I expect will be moved to a smaller number of more serious subclasses. Wizards I also expect to see gain a spellbook-related ability to cast spells they didn't strictly prepare.

Sorcerers - The Arcane list is broader than their previous list, and preparation is a big change for them that eliminates their dumb raison d'etre from 3E/5E, so I expect they'll move to be more focused on being the "untrained caster" and "metamagic caster", and overall will likely gain in power.

Them + Bards is all the full casters.