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Wheel of Time Discussion - Spoilers(with book spoilers)

TheSword

Legend
Well, that wasn't my impression 25 years ago, but again, it has been awhile. I remember thinking that--at the least--his female characters were more similar to each other than his males. It was a common view, iirc.

What do you mean by "impact?" Impact on what? Fantasy literature? Culture? World events? Cosmic history?

True. He is more Dickensian than Hemingwaysian (awkward). I think part of his appeal for many was how granular his descriptions were. But it is a stylistic preference, or a spectrum that he's on one end of and someone like Michael Moorcock is on the other (at least his earlier stuff, pre-Gloriana).
I think for me granularity of descriptions isn’t really the main thing. Instead it’s down to:
  • Heroic characters that come into their own from zero to hero
  • meticulous and consistent world building, reinforced over and over again in hundreds of circumstances.
  • A strong compelling mythology of the world with clear links to the current story
  • More moments of awesome than three other book series combined.

The last for me is why Wheel of Time blows the socks of Game of Thrones. GOT has come cool bits in it (usually involving dragons), but most of the climaxes in GOT where the result of tragedy striking - Ned’s head, red wedding, purple wedding, Tyrion’s second trial etc.

Wheel of Time however takes the mythology, takes the characters, takes events up to that point and weaves them into spectacular achievements that are so epic they could be series climaxes in their own regards. The Eye of the World; Falme; The rings of Rhuidean; The breaking at Alcair Dal; Dumai’s Wells; The Cleansing; Egwene’s Election; Egwene v Elaida; The Raid of Tar Valon; Verin’s revelation; The Tower of Genji; The Last Battle… and many many many more encounters. Any of those are more powerful than events in GOT.
 

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payn

Legend
As a reader who dislikes most fantasy, Martin had the right mix of political intrigue and characterization that's almost non-existent in fantasy writing. Tragedy has a way of sticking with people, I mean Shakespeare stuff still sells like hot cakes. Martin brought that element to fantasy genre. That was why I enjoyed it. My least favorite things were the white walkers and dragons, so I can see why fantasy fans might not have thought much of it.
 

TheSword

Legend
As a reader who dislikes most fantasy, Martin had the right mix of political intrigue and characterization that's almost non-existent in fantasy writing. Tragedy has a way of sticking with people, I mean Shakespeare stuff still sells like hot cakes. Martin brought that element to fantasy genre. That was why I enjoyed it. My least favorite things were the white walkers and dragons, so I can see why fantasy fans might not have thought much of it.
There’s plenty of characterization and political intrigue in WOT.

Though if you don’t like fantasy then you may not enjoy it. Because it is undeniable fantasy.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
As a reader who dislikes most fantasy, Martin had the right mix of political intrigue and characterization that's almost non-existent in fantasy writing. Tragedy has a way of sticking with people, I mean Shakespeare stuff still sells like hot cakes. Martin brought that element to fantasy genre. That was why I enjoyed it. My least favorite things were the white walkers and dragons, so I can see why fantasy fans might not have thought much of it.
Taken as a whole across all 14 books, Wheel of Time ends up having as much if not more political intrigue and definitely more characterization than a Song of Ice & Fire. Game of Thrones definitely starts at a higher speed than Eye of the World.
 

I think for me granularity of descriptions isn’t really the main thing. Instead it’s down to:
  • Heroic characters that come into their own from zero to hero
  • meticulous and consistent world building, reinforced over and over again in hundreds of circumstances.
  • A strong compelling mythology of the world with clear links to the current story
  • More moments of awesome than three other book series combined.

The last for me is why Wheel of Time blows the socks of Game of Thrones. GOT has come cool bits in it (usually involving dragons), but most of the climaxes in GOT where the result of tragedy striking - Ned’s head, red wedding, purple wedding, Tyrion’s second trial etc.

Wheel of Time however takes the mythology, takes the characters, takes events up to that point and weaves them into spectacular achievements that are so epic they could be series climaxes in their own regards. The Eye of the World; Falme; The rings of Rhuidean; The breaking at Alcair Dal; Dumai’s Wells; The Cleansing; Egwene’s Election; Egwene v Elaida; The Raid of Tar Valon; Verin’s revelation; The Tower of Genji; The Last Battle… and many many many more encounters. Any of those are more powerful than events in GOT.
Verin's revelation was one of the most jaw-dropping moments I have ever seen/read in any media. Here's a character we've been following for decades, and we knew something was up... but... wow. I would have never guessed that was what was going on, even though it had been set up perfectly during the course of several novels. I really, really can't wait to see that scene play out onscreen, and the non-book fans' reaction to it...
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Verin's revelation was one of the most jaw-dropping moments I have ever seen/read in any media. Here's a character we've been following for decades, and we knew something was up... but... wow. I would have never guessed that was what was going on, even though it had been set up perfectly during the course of several novels. I really, really can't wait to see that scene play out onscreen, and the non-book fans' reaction to it...
I think it will be more readily apparent on-screen. There will have to be odd shifty looks and such to set up the revelation, like they did with Padan Fain in episode 1. It's easier to sneak by in print.
 

I think it will be more readily apparent on-screen. There will have to be odd shifty looks and such to set up the revelation, like they did with Padan Fain in episode 1. It's easier to sneak by in print.
On the surface level, yes. Fans started getting suspicions early on. But what she had actually done on a secondary level, and the why and how... that's the truly awesome part, and something that will (hopefully) come as the true surprise.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Verin's revelation was one of the most jaw-dropping moments I have ever seen/read in any media. Here's a character we've been following for decades, and we knew something was up... but... wow. I would have never guessed that was what was going on, even though it had been set up perfectly during the course of several novels. I really, really can't wait to see that scene play out onscreen, and the non-book fans' reaction to it...
I mean, I spent too much time in speculation circles back in the day, but it was one of the primary guesses as to what she was up to. Actually a lot of the weirder stuff was guessed at some point by someone or other, which is why Jordan had to engage his poker face HARD when dealing with fan questions. Martin was not so successful at his bluff checks back when people figured out Jon Snow's parentage in the 90's.
 



Zardnaar

Legend

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Seemes popular.


Looks like we'll have 3 good fantasy series all more or less concurrent.
I mean, even three problematic but high budget fantasy series on air concurrently would have been an unthinkable paradise to me in 1999.
 



doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think for me granularity of descriptions isn’t really the main thing. Instead it’s down to:
  • Heroic characters that come into their own from zero to hero
  • meticulous and consistent world building, reinforced over and over again in hundreds of circumstances.
  • A strong compelling mythology of the world with clear links to the current story
  • More moments of awesome than three other book series combined.

The last for me is why Wheel of Time blows the socks of Game of Thrones. GOT has come cool bits in it (usually involving dragons), but most of the climaxes in GOT where the result of tragedy striking - Ned’s head, red wedding, purple wedding, Tyrion’s second trial etc.

Wheel of Time however takes the mythology, takes the characters, takes events up to that point and weaves them into spectacular achievements that are so epic they could be series climaxes in their own regards. The Eye of the World; Falme; The rings of Rhuidean; The breaking at Alcair Dal; Dumai’s Wells; The Cleansing; Egwene’s Election; Egwene v Elaida; The Raid of Tar Valon; Verin’s revelation; The Tower of Genji; The Last Battle… and many many many more encounters. Any of those are more powerful than events in GOT.
Egwene’s big thing in the last battle…I haven’t the words. Just incredible.

Hell Rand coming back down Dragonmount was a beautiful moment.

When they save Moraine.

Lan’s ride to the last battle and Nynaeve’s whole thing.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Egwene’s big thing in the last battle…I haven’t the words. Just incredible.

Hell Rand coming back down Dragonmount was a beautiful moment.

When they save Moraine.

Lan’s ride to the last battle and Nynaeve’s whole thing.
I really, really liked all of Matt's and Tuon's interactions. Especially when you could see inside of Tuon's head and know her thoughts.
 



Parmandur

Book-Friend
I really, really liked all of Matt's and Tuon's interactions. Especially when you could see inside of Tuon's head and know her thoughts.
Say, Tuon, there's a different female character for you.

One part of character that Jordan was exceptionally good at was cultural difference. Tuon and Aviendha, for instance, had very diffeperspectives and that mattered when we saw their POV.
 

I think Jordan was actually good at portraying a variety of female characters. The main women are all pretty distinct…Egwene, Aviendha, Elayne, Min, Moiraine, Verin, Lanfear, Siuan, Moghedien….they’re all strong individuals. There’s some similarities for sure, but no more than the similarities among the men.

I think where it becomes a bit of an issue is simply the number of secondary female characters. There are so many entourages and groups of women who can channel that many start to blend together.
 

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