When does magic loot become too much; how do I fix?

[Castellanox7]

Evening everyone!

I'm DMing a really loose/more-fun-than-rules-lawyering makeshift campaign (read: I'm just going from module to module ATM) with only TWO PC's in the party.

In hindsight, I think I tweaked their characters at LVL 1 a bit much, but I don't want to kill off characters that they have grown with.

(I COULD kill them off as a last resort, but I don't want to--I'm the type of player that immerses himself in a character. If I were one of the players, would be mildly peeved if they died off, I keep that in mind when I DM. )


I don't remember the PC's ability stats, but the party is comprised of an:

* Elven Cleric/Ranger (Archer): Greatbow (20/40 range, I think), spams Silvery Arrow.

* Genasi Swordmage (she may change to a houseruled SM/Barbarian hybrid), Ravenclaw Longsword, spams Sword Burst and the SM's burst 1 "spin around with their sword pointed out" power.


Also in hindsight, I think I've spoiled them a bit too much, too early. The Swordmage's Ravenclaw blade has something like a final to-hit score of +12. I'm pretty okay with that, however, given she does mid-to-lackluster damage.


I'm to the point where I'm pretty much forbidding myself from giving out any special/magical items unless they're limited (such as arrows), or have daily-only powers (rings, necklaces, etc.).

I may be blowing this out of proportion--the PC's don't mind, but I shudder every time I see "Level # magic item" in the DM booklets.

...not to mention the last session we had, BOTH of them rolled nat 20's while they were searching rooms -insert double facepalm here-...**


Any suggestions on what I should do? Knee-jerk thoughts include:

* Implement a Dark-Sun-esque "weapon breaks/has wear and tear" on a crit failure rule?
* Plot twist where their gear is stolen?/Baldur's Gate 2-esque "we lost all our weaponry when we were captured"?
* Plot twist where the magical elements in the items disintegrate due to a reaction to fluctuations in the Weave?


I'm stabbing in the dark here; any advice or thoughts? No suggestion too random.

Thanks everyone!
-CastX7

**I know I could just say "Congrats! You found golden lint!", and give them nothing, despite the 20.

 

[Unwise]

I'm just not sure what the problem you are referring to is. Can I check a few things?

1. What level are they now? Without context we really can't help.

2. What + are the magic items in question? Have you given +5 weapons to level one characters? Or is it in their level range?

3. Are you using Inherent Bonuses on the characters? Like in Dark Sun.

Not knowing that, all I can suggest is that level inflation will devalue the equipment they have soon enough. I actually find it hard to fit in a whole new suite of equipment every 5 levels or so for each character like D&D seems to suggest. With a group of 5-6, that means they are tripping over magic items every time you open a door. So I have the opposite problem, my players out-level their equipment too quickly. I have level 14 characters using the odd peice of +1 gear.

 

[mo0man]

I'd say don't really worry about it. Sure, +12 is pretty high, but if you're doing a 2 PC party, you're customising the encounters for them anyway. Just drop in higher level monsters at them and instead of giving them magical items, give them gold. Lots and lots of gold. The gold that you give them isn't likely to throw off the balance of the encounters too badly. I mean, as long as you don't give them like 10x more gold than they should have it should be okay

 

[Tony Vargas]

This is the kind of problem that'll sort itself out. A 'too high level' magic weapon is only too high level until the PCs get within 5 or so of it. Another 5 levels and it's 'too low level.' The main effect is an extra +1 or 2 to hit, which is really nice, but not overwhelming. Items just aren't the campaign-breakers that they were in AD&D.

Don't place any magical weapons for a while. For that matter, you can place magic items that are clearly inferior to the ones they have, if you think the story calls for items being present. They can sell them for 1/5th, which also shouldn't be campaign-breaking.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, I'm with the consensus here too. This is the GOOD side of 4e's steep magic item value curve. Just cut back to normal rate of distribution from now on and in a couple levels the PCs will go from being ahead of the curve to pretty much on the curve. 4e is self-correcting that way. If you really need to cut back below normal distribution for a while then find some cool, useful, but lower level items ( a lot of wondrous items work well) like even a level 15 party is probably going to be happy to find a bag of holding, an endless quiver, various battle standards, etc.

 

[Evilhalfling]

If your using published modules, they will have about treasure for 5 people.
cut all money rewards to 1/3, and drop 2 of 3 items listed.

I agree with the others, in a few levels it will sort itself out. If you need to do something about it now, add a few points to all enemies defenses.
+5 (stat), +3 (proficiency), +1 feat, +1 magic, +1/2 level would be considered normal. IME many PCs get +2 weapons at/by level 5, and +3 at/by 10th.
Taking away PCs gear is always a tricky problem, its easier to adjust behind the screen.


golden lint is fine, a book of goblin poetry, or "your absolutely positive there is nothing to find". A 20 Search check doesn't mean they found something if there was nothing to find, or that it is valuable.

 

[Ferghis]

In addition to echoing what many others have said, I'll add this: unless you're giving out items far above the characters' level (greater than level +5), the characters aren't really going to "break" the game.

They'll have more options, but given the inherent limitations imposed by surges, item slots (unless they take one of the familiars that lets them swap out items as a free action as often as they want - those, paired with lots of items can be dangerous: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...2-free-action-item-draw-stow-overpowered.html), the economy of actions (they still get one immediate, one minor, one move and one standard action per round), and the relative power of the items in question. Say you give a low-paragon weapon or implement to a high-heroic character. The net effect is an extra +1 to hit and damage. That's not going to break the game.

 

[Castellanox7]

Thank you everyone!

Just to answer a few Qs:

Unwise:

I'm not 100% sure about this;

* they are level four or five
* the highest + is +3 I think.
* I just ran them through the char generator. Outside of racial/class bonuses, I haven't given them anything. No spellscars/tattoos/"Belongs to <insert Eb. House or FR Harpers/etc. here>" status.
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EvilHalfling:

Good point about taking away gear.

With that, my "downfall" as a DM is I always have the thought, "How would *I* like to be treated as a PC?", front-of-mind. I'm about 80% sure that was what put me in this situation in the first place. Thank you.
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-CastX7

 

[Arlough]

Thank you everyone!

Just to answer a few Qs:

Unwise:

I'm not 100% sure about this;

* they are level four or five
* the highest + is +3 I think.
* I just ran them through the char generator. Outside of racial/class bonuses, I haven't given them anything. No spellscars/tattoos/"Belongs to <insert Eb. House or FR Harpers/etc. here>" status.
---------------------------

EvilHalfling:

Good point about taking away gear.

With that, my "downfall" as a DM is I always have the thought, "How would *I* like to be treated as a PC?", front-of-mind. I'm about 80% sure that was what put me in this situation in the first place. Thank you.
---------------------------

-CastX7

While that is about 1 demi-tier too high, this can be solved still. Power level them and only give them loot appropriate to their level.
Throw a +3 level challenge at them, hit them with waves of +1 and +2 challenges, and give them +1 Swords of Merchant Fodder and +2 Spears of We Can't Use This. Once they have three or four more levels, and a whole bushel of loot worth 20%, they will be mildly richer and only a little over equipped at best.
Also, give them items that give them tricks instead of bonuses. Things that broaden their options rather than inflate their power. Examples

• Baldric of Tactical Positioning - encounter power that creates flanking options. AV1.163
• Whistle of Warning - Encounter Power lets allies shift, draw a weapon, or retrieve an implement for free. AV2.078
• Potion of Clarity - Spend a surge and reserve yourself the option to reroll a D20 with a +1 at some point this encounter. AV1.188
• Nail of Sealing - Arcane Lock in your pocket. AV1.191

Finally, I would suggest using inherent bonuses. They don't stack with enhancement bonuses from weapons/armor/neck items, and it takes away the player need/entitlement for more crap, so if you forget to upgrade their gear, it really isn't a big deal.

 

[bganon]

I'd echo what others said and just add:

Relax.

+12 to-hit with a weapon attack at level 5 isn't even that big of a deal. Munchkin optimizers can easily achieve that with perfectly by-the-book magic item handouts. So you're not really breaking anything. They might be a bit "ahead" by having +3 weapons already, but it seems to balanced out by the fact that your players aren't powergaming. They're having fun instead. Just go with it, and if you're really concerned you can tone down future item drops or ramp up monsters slightly.