Where are the rapiers?

[heirodule]

Wasn't that 2e? The whole slashing, piercing, bludgeoning chart of evil? We used it once too and never looked back.

Yes, 2e had it simplified to P/b/S/

1e had it specified with EACH WEAPON. Bo sticks were like -14 against AC 2.

I used it ALL THE TIME!

It was interesting when the lasso came out. It reproduced touch attack mechanics by saying that at each AC level you got a bonus of +1 more, another way of saying the armor didn't matter.

AC 10: +0
AC 9: +1
AC 8: +2
etc.

 

[D.Shaffer]

1st had a huge weapon chart with each AC across the top and a +/- listed below for each individual entry. If you thought the 2nd ed one was bad, that was worse. Speed Factors too, ick.

 

[philippe willaume]

I'll admit that while it is my favourite sword, my history of it is somewhat dodgy... So, Carnivorous_Bean how effective then was the side-sword/cut-and-thrust sword in actual combat?

Since it was slightly shorter and stronger then the rapier as well as having a cutting edge with the point? Wondering since the side-sword did evolve into the rapier in many regards.

Well since broadsword, side-sword backsword, epee, cut and trust what ever it was called through Europe at the time and now, was in use in all the armed forces, I would say pretty superior to rapier…

Now when you say rapier, do you mean a backsword on the light side with a skeleton guard. Aka the proto-rapier, or a thin long sword with a skeletal guard, or proper early rapier for that matter.

The massively long rapier as in Spanish rapier or Swetenam 4 foot weapon.

Or the late rapier that looks so much like a small sword and his not called that because the term has not been coined yet.

Should we be really bother by the fact that rapier were floppy long thing and no that good at parrying proper sword let alone long sword.
I don’t think so, I mean paring a sway handed with a dagger, an axe or a mace is as ridiculous so it is not that bad

May be rapier, since it seems to be a feat could get you how to use the whole lot of light thrusting oriented weapons, the used in conjuntion with a parrying dagger.

Poto-rapier 1d4 slashing 1d8 piercing
Rapier proper 1d6 piercing and threaten two cases (just to make the 12 foot lunge happens in D&D)
Small sword late rapier 1d6 piercing

Main gauche/paring dagger 1 d4 piercing +1 in AC or +1 in reflex or both according on how AC panes out.
phil

 

[ArmoredSaint]

It amazes me how often the myth that rapiers were invented to oppose armour pops up...

 

[philippe willaume]

It amazes me how often the myth that rapiers were invented to oppose armour pops up...

Well you know, not long ago it was a view that was fairly common in the academic world.
Along with fencing started in the 16th century
You need stirrups to use a couched lance.
Medieval sword were very heavy
Armour prevents you to move,


Like all that there is a part of truth in it, yes thrusting is the way to defeat armour and long sword evolved to satisfy that.
Scandinavia seems to have been particularly found of 130 cm+25 cm hilt lvery thick and narrow long sword.

For judicial dual panzerstechen, a sword solely dedicated to fight in armour seems to have been quite common in Germany
It has really noting to do with the rapier as it is very stiff and the length of a long sword but I can understand where it all come from

phil

 

[Cake Mage]

That's what I was thinking. A rapier could be one of those weapons that has an extra effect when it criticals - like the War Pick which has the high crit property that deals extra dice on a critical.

That is my thought too, but I will also say that I think certain weapons that do require other feats, or proficiencies, will be ::ahem:: more awesome. I think they have added benifits to them then just better weapon damage. Something more like:

Rapier (peircing) 1d6; 19-20 crit; finesse:
On a critical hit you disarm your opponant.

 

[Will]

Personally, when I envision a rogue? A rapier is not at all involved.

If I hadn't seen 3.5e, and someone asked me what 'class' should use a rapier, I'd say 'lightly armored fighter, maybe some sort of swashbuckler.'

A rapier is for fighting directly. Rogues are not about fighting directly.

Now, it'll be cool if they can be moved that way, but in 4e I'd consider that cross training.


Hell, I'd be inclined to give a penalty to Hide for anyone wielding a sword.

 

[Wormwood]

Personally, when I envision a rogue? A rapier is not at all involved.

I think a half-brick in a sock would be more appropriate.

 

[Banshee16]

I don't mind that rapiers aren't around. Its a fantasy setting and they seem to be trying to get away with the whole European influence. Not only that, rapiers were fine at a time when everyone was using them, but a rapier going against a guy in chainmail wielding a greatsword? Insanity. The guy with the rapier would be toast.

Not quite. There's a lot to be said for being able to move in, strike, and be out of reach before that slow guy in chainmail gets his swing in. And for being able to keep going twice as long. The game has never really modeled sword fighting very well, as a result......a huge component of it is pure footwork, and then blocking/parrying, and there's no real simulation of that in the D&D system.

A guy with a rapier would not be at that much of a disadvantage. He probably benefits from having an extra foot or two of reach.

Banshee

 

[pawsplay]

Rapiers are cut-and-thrust weapons. A stabbing only weapon is called an estoc. The stabbing only rapier is an evolution of the later dueling era, and leads quickly to the epee.