Where are the rapiers?

[Fallen Seraph]

Annoy A Bitch
Raphael Cheese 1
Your enemy has no answer for your attacks.

At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a rapier.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex

Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage. Infinite follow up attacks.

I see you have played against someone who has used that damn slash-move again and again and again ><

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

I'll admit that while it is my favourite sword, my history of it is somewhat dodgy... So, Carnivorous_Bean how effective then was the side-sword/cut-and-thrust sword in actual combat?

Since it was slightly shorter and stronger then the rapier as well as having a cutting edge with the point? Wondering since the side-sword did evolve into the rapier in many regards.

Pretty much the same thing as the broadswords used by the cavalry at the time, although a bit lighter for use on foot. Effective in combat? -- I'd say fairly, unless against a heavily armored opponent. By that time, the armor was so thick to deflect or slow bullets that you really needed a pistol used as a melee weapon (that is, put the muzzle almost against the target, and fire) to be sure of a kill.

The best sword for use against plate armor remains the bastard sword or hand-and-a-half sword or longsword, IMO and from what I've read (our D&D longsword is just a sword, or a "war sword", actually ). Long enough to give reach while gripping the hilt with one hand and the blade with the other for quick, strong, accurate stabs at the weak points and joints.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

It might be worth keeping in mind here, though, that "rapier" isn't necessarily referring specifically to the historic unarmored fencing weapon, but more likely (as with all D&D weapons) to a general class of slender-bladed stabby weapons. Call them estocs or tucks if you prefer. In fact, I'd suggest that the actual post-1580s rapier would just never show up in a D&D game. Assume it's shorthand for estoc (or sword-rapier) and have done with.

A very good point. (Dang, that has a double meaning in this thread, doesn't it ?)

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Thanks, Carnivorous_Bean I thought it was more effective, but wasn't sure Makes it oh the more sweeter that it is my favourite sword

Yeah, while not the same in my games instead of in your case replacing it was the estoc I always just used the side-sword, for both obvious now real reasons and personal taste reasons.

Hmm... Be interesting then actually if perhaps the Rapier is simply the weapon-proficiency name for all these different types of swords along with a actual rapier?

 

[JohnSnow]

Thanks, Carnivorous_Bean I thought it was more effective, but wasn't sure Makes it oh the more sweeter that it is my favourite sword

Yeah, while not the same in my games instead of in your case replacing it was the estoc I always just used the side-sword, for both obvious now real reasons and personal taste reasons.

Hmm... Be interesting then actually if perhaps the Rapier is simply the weapon-proficiency name for all these different types of swords along with a actual rapier?

Well, from what I've learned in my study of European Martial Arts, an estoc is more like an iron bar with a point.

'Sidesword' is a recently-coined "calque" (a direct English translation) of the Italian spada da lato. Which was the term actually used in England during the 15th and 16th centuries for the sword that was the precursor to the so-called "true rapier."

The sidesword was a direct descendent of the arming sword (what D&D calls a "longsword") and both coexisted with both the longsword (what D&D calls a bastard sword) and the greatsword.

Confusing matters are the shortsword, which D&D actually got right, and the Backsword (a single edged heavy combat sword), which D&D doesn't really touch on at all. And don't even get me started on the smallsword (which is far too late for D&D).

Hopefully, they'll keep rapier a more generic term to represent the entire category of light and quick cut-and-thrust swords. For example, if you make a rapier a light blade that does damage like a (D&D) longsword, that's probably an improvement worth spending a feat (like "fighter training") to get.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Of course, what's missing from all this is the fact that, historically, if you're going up against a guy in plate armor, you don't want a sword at all. You want a good mace or a heavy axe.

And that picture's still elongating my screen like Stretch Armstrong at a strip club.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Yeah knew about the arming sword, and the other names... Side-sword is easier to write/remember

Lol, D&D sure has its hands if it ever tried to be completely accurate.

Hmm... As for the backsword while it isn't the same in D&D terms they probably chuck it in with the falchion or sabre.

Yeah, lol... Ekk of all weaponry those scare me the most, hmm... I wonder actually could it be possible if say in D&D we could have three ACs for each armour. One to contend with how well it deals with blunt strikes, another piercing and perhaps another for slashing. Sorta like WoD with one for normal attacks one for bullets.

 

[Incenjucar]

Of course, what's missing from all this is the fact that, historically, if you're going up against a guy in plate armor, you don't want a sword at all. You want a good mace or a heavy axe.

Nah, in that case I want a bow and a very fast horse.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I wonder actually could it be possible if say in D&D we could have three ACs for each armour. One to contend with how well it deals with blunt strikes, another piercing and perhaps another for slashing. Sorta like WoD with one for normal attacks one for bullets.

1E did that, as an optional rule. It was annoying as all hell, and I never met a single person who used it more than once.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Nah, in that case I want a bow and a very fast horse.

Okay, fine. Add an "in melee" to my comment.

(Though actually, if we're talking plate armor, give me a crossbow, not a bow.)