Where is metamagic going?

Li Shenron

Legend
Don't know if anybody else had the same feeling as mine, but I think that recent products are showing a trend in how metamagic works that really is making me worry. :\

If you just play with core material and early 3ed edition supplements such as Tome & Blood, metamagic has its greatest limitation IMHO not in the level increase cost but in the preparation requirements. This of course makes spontaneous casters the masters of metamagic because they can do it on the fly.

I always thought it was fair: spontaneous casters have their hardest limitation in the extrememlely limited number of spells known. Comparing the wizard vs the sorcerer, you get unlimited knowledge + faster advancement + bonus feats versus full spell slots efficiency (from spontaneous casting) + 50% more spells/day + metamagic flexibility.

Metamagic was not just something to pull the sorcerer power a little up, it was IMHO the SIGNATURE feature of sorcerer's spellcasting! :cool: I have played a few sorcerers already and cannot have one without metamagic feats! :p

However what I am worried about is that we often get supplements with possibilities to avoid the limitation to metamagic because of spell preparation. We have for example:

- metamagic rods: considering that you rarely need to use a specific metamagic feat more than 3/day, the limitation means almost nothing; the price is incredibly cheap for a minor mm rod; greater rods are effectively expensive, but if you notice that they let you do something completely beyond normal spellcasting (metamagicking 9th level spells!), if they had been epic few people would have found it strange

- variant rules from UA address the problem and offer ways to cast metamagic without preparation

- there are prestige class abilities here and there (such as the Incantatrix) or feats in the supplementary books which let you metamagic on the fly, with no need for preparation

Now to one side these things are not terrible themselves, but it seems to me like they are addressing the problem from the point of view of the preparation spellcasters only. I mean, it seems like the publishers are thinking of the poor wizards and clerics who cannot effectively use metamagic on the fly, but these cheap ways to circumvent the limitations forget that there is a whole population of sorcerers in the world who actually make a living out of it! :confused: And guess what? No one is doing anything to help sorcerers lessen their big limitations of few spells known, it's totally unfair! :p

I don't know, but this trend also makes me wonder if in future editions we are going to see major changes to metamagic (if it's still going to exist, of course). I seriously think that in an eventual 4e metamagic will always be done on the fly.
 

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that is the main reason i used to play a sorcerer, because of the metamagic-on-the-fly thing that no other class has. using metamagics as a wizard, cleric or druid is pretty sucky because you have to think about everything ahead of time. i can deal with normal spell prepration but adding the metamagic feats to that is pretty time consuming and sometimes proves to be a waste. the metamagic rods are an exellent magic item for all spell casters because you can metamagic even your highest level spells, even better for non-spontaneous casters because they can spontaneously metamagic any spell they prepared, but its still only spells they prepard ahead of time.
 

kolikeos said:
that is the main reason i used to play a sorcerer, because of the metamagic-on-the-fly thing that no other class has.

True, but as a spontaneous caster you have to worry a whole lot more about getting your spell casting disrupted. It takes a minimum of a full round of casting (starts at the beginning of the current turn and ends at the beginning of your next round's turn) to cast any Metamagic influenced spell, so that's a long time to spend casting a spell. The fact that your enemies can use spells, melee weapons and ranged weapons to stop you from throwing that Maximized Fireball is pretty balancing to me. A wizard doing the same thing only has the worry if he is casting in a threatened area or if someone has Readied an action against the possibility that the wizard is going to cast a spell (not all that common).
 

To get back on the origian subject:

There are a plethora of prestige classes to by-pass the problems of arcane spell casters. Armored spell casting, faster counter spelling and working around metamagic to name but a few. The Sorcerer has seen some support from S&SS, but not a lot, although I do like their take on the natural aspects of the Sorcerer.
 

Telperion said:
True, but as a spontaneous caster you have to worry a whole lot more about getting your spell casting disrupted. It takes a minimum of a full round of casting (starts at the beginning of the current turn and ends at the beginning of your next round's turn) to cast any Metamagic influenced spell, so that's a long time to spend casting a spell. The fact that your enemies can use spells, melee weapons and ranged weapons to stop you from throwing that Maximized Fireball is pretty balancing to me. A wizard doing the same thing only has the worry if he is casting in a threatened area or if someone has Readied an action against the possibility that the wizard is going to cast a spell (not all that common).

You better reconsider your comment before being seriously threatened by lots of other posters... ;)
 

Li Shenron said:
You better reconsider your comment before being seriously threatened by lots of other posters... ;)

...I'm too tired & stressed to be concerned about what other posters think about my comments / personal opinions...

My opinion is, and will most likely always be, that if you have to spend more time casting a spell then you are opening yourself up for a world of hurt. Cast faster and live longer!
 


Telperion said:
True, but as a spontaneous caster you have to worry a whole lot more about getting your spell casting disrupted. It takes a minimum of a full round of casting (starts at the beginning of the current turn and ends at the beginning of your next round's turn) to cast any Metamagic influenced spell, so that's a long time to spend casting a spell. The fact that your enemies can use spells, melee weapons and ranged weapons to stop you from throwing that Maximized Fireball is pretty balancing to me. A wizard doing the same thing only has the worry if he is casting in a threatened area or if someone has Readied an action against the possibility that the wizard is going to cast a spell (not all that common).

That's not how it works. A spontaneous caster using a metamagicked version of a spell which normally takes one standard action to cast does not take a full round to cast it. It takes a full-round action. So the spell still goes off on the caster's turn in intitative, before anyone else gets to act (other than for readied actions and AoOs, of course). The downside is that all you can do besides casting it is take a 5 ft step and any free actions in the turn, not that enemies get a full round to interrupt it (they don't).
 
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Telperion said:
My opinion is, and will most likely always be, that if you have to spend more time casting a spell then you are opening yourself up for a world of hurt. Cast faster and live longer!

Ah well, if you want to make it this way, that's fine of course. I was just trying to protect you :p
 

I dunno Li, I think he's right. But maybe you're joking and it's too early in the morning for me to get it.

Personally, I think metamagic is overrated.
 

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