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D&D 5E Which Classic Settings do you think WotC will publish?

Which (up to) Four Settings Do You Think WotC Will Publish (in 2021-24)?

  • Blackmoor

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Greyhawk

    Votes: 34 23.8%
  • Dragonlance

    Votes: 88 61.5%
  • Forgotten Realms - Faerun only

    Votes: 48 33.6%
  • Forgotten Realms - Other (beyond Faerun)

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Mystara (with or without Hollow World)

    Votes: 10 7.0%
  • Dark Sun

    Votes: 86 60.1%
  • Spelljammer

    Votes: 36 25.2%
  • Planescape

    Votes: 46 32.2%
  • Planescape/Spelljammer Hybrid (in some form or fashion)

    Votes: 58 40.6%
  • Birthright

    Votes: 5 3.5%
  • Council of Wyrms

    Votes: 5 3.5%
  • Jakandor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ghostlight

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nentir Vale/Nerath ("Points of Light")

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Kara-Tur (as separate from FR)

    Votes: 4 2.8%
  • Other/None/I'm Being Difficult

    Votes: 7 4.9%

  • Total voters
    143
Just saying, the Dragonlance novels have sold somewhat better than anything related to Jakondor or Ghostwalk. I don't care for the Dragonlance novels, mind you (more of a Redwall man), I'm talking about commercial potential in the market that WotC will consider.
But they have to factor in who they've sold to/are selling to, I'd think. And I'm just really having difficulty buying this notion that DL is popular with any groups under 40. And like, in addition, WotC wouldn't have tried to cancel the recent novel series if the sales were definitely going to be huge. I mean, unless it was really, really, really bad on the "problematic" front, like waaaaaay worse than anyone has been implying lol. I guess that latter is possible.

I just don't see any evidence, I guess, that anyone is buying SCAG because they buy FR novels? Like, I don't have any data on that, but the only person I know who still reads FR novels, doesn't run the FR or even own SCAG.

So like, sure, DL has this base of aging fans, but would that even potentially translate to moving D&D books? I feel like something like Jakandor, even w/o any fanbase, because it's conceptually got a lot more going on, and has a bit of bonus meme potential as this legendary "forgotten setting", honestly would be easy to get moving for 5E, and could probably sell at least as many units as a DL setting book, if not more.

Maybe I'm wrong though - maybe people would buy DL because they were curious about it, having heard of it.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
I mean, does this mean that dragonborn and tieflings will be in Dark Sun?

4E Dark Sun had dragonborn and tieflings. I personally thought that was kind of dumb, and would prefer the Dray as a dragonborn subrace, and just cutting tieflings.

That game doesn't work like that. If you buy a setting book it is additive to the existing rulebooks. So if you want to have a setting without dragonborn you have to add a rule "In this setting players cannot choose to play as dragonborn".

The way it's worded in Mythic Odysseys of Theros is: "Aside from humans, the races in the Player’s Handbook are unknown on Theros, unless they’re visiting from other worlds."

To be clear, Greyhawk already kind of works like that. In Ghosts of Saltmarsh, there is a line about how the town is ok with any race in the PHB, but have a special animosity towards Tieflings and Dragonborns (or suspicion, I can't remember the exact line). It seemed worded in a way to allow DMs to decide whether they want to allow dragonborn or not, although the book seemed to allow them by including a tiefling npc and having an art piece with a dragonborn.
 

Coroc

Hero
That game doesn't work like that. If you buy a setting book it is additive to the existing rulebooks. So if you want to have a setting without dragonborn you have to add a rule "In this setting players cannot choose to play as dragonborn".

The way it's worded in Mythic Odysseys of Theros is: "Aside from humans, the races in the Player’s Handbook are unknown on Theros, unless they’re visiting from other worlds."
And oddly enough no one is offended by it in the slightest way, or I have missed it in the forums.
Otoh endless discussions why DS or GHK have to include drow halfgnome paladin mutant ninja turtles for "diversity" and because it is the base expectation of the majority of 5e players, and everyone and his mother has to be able to do shoehorned arcane magic in DS because a wizard just does not offer enough choice.
I really wonder, what is the difference here? Why is one thing , were it would not matter because it is new undisputed, and with the other there is forum wars on whether it should be reachable via spelljamming or not?
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Not disagreeing per se but isn't this because Millennials don't watch things on network TV? They often watch the same shows but via streaming. Or is that factored in to the 2m views? I know in the UK things get pretty complicated by that. Like when the BBC has something that's a big hit with millennials, often actual viewers at the actual time is pretty low, then there'll be this long tail of streaming views, whereas if they do something which is also a hit with Boomers and Gen X, you have a hell of lot more people watching it at actual time of broadcast, but the streaming views are relatively lower.
The CW does do relatively better with time shifted views than CBS Boomerbait, but not in absolute numbers. Nothing wrong with niche services, but CW is not mainstream.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
But they have to factor in who they've sold to/are selling to, I'd think. And I'm just really having difficulty buying this notion that DL is popular with any groups under 40. And like, in addition, WotC wouldn't have tried to cancel the recent novel series if the sales were definitely going to be huge. I mean, unless it was really, really, really bad on the "problematic" front, like waaaaaay worse than anyone has been implying lol. I guess that latter is possible.

I just don't see any evidence, I guess, that anyone is buying SCAG because they buy FR novels? Like, I don't have any data on that, but the only person I know who still reads FR novels, doesn't run the FR or even own SCAG.

So like, sure, DL has this base of aging fans, but would that even potentially translate to moving D&D books? I feel like something like Jakandor, even w/o any fanbase, because it's conceptually got a lot more going on, and has a bit of bonus meme potential as this legendary "forgotten setting", honestly would be easy to get moving for 5E, and could probably sell at least as many units as a DL setting book, if not more.

Maybe I'm wrong though - maybe people would buy DL because they were curious about it, having heard of it.
I mean, I haven't read the books since the 90's, and my recollection was that they were decidedly mediocre (the late 90's fantast genre scene had evolved considerably since 1984). Your criticism is very valid, my wife read them a couple years ago, and as a late 20's Millenial she found plenty to criticize very close to what you have articulated, but she enjoyed them and decided to stock them on our shelf for the kids (the four that WotC keeps in print and pretends is the whole series on Amazon now). Vanilla can be a very popular flavor.

The new books will be the proving ground, I wager: if they knock it out of the park, WotC will likely want to capitalize on that in the next couple years.

I wouldn't read too much into the judgement of the guy at WotC who tried to kill the novels and subsequently lost his job (replaced by Sdsm Lee recently): he was directly responsible for the War of the Dpark debacle, which yikes, talk about problematic...
 

delericho

Legend
Which ones do I think they'll publish next? In no particular order (except the first):

Ravenloft. Obviously, a bit of a cheat, since it's coming imminently.

Dark Sun. There have been more than a few hints in this direction, so it definitely sounds like it's coming.

Dragonlance. Likewise.

A Spelljammer/Planescape hybrid. As much as I detest the idea, it does feel like this is the way that they're going.
 

And oddly enough no one is offended by it in the slightest way, or I have missed it in the forums.
I suspect it's because Theros hasn't got a deeply rooted fanatical fanbase, who actually have widely different opinions of what "the true essence of Theros" is.

I think it's a lot safer for WotC to only make MtG (or otherwise new) settings, and let the players who like the old settings use the old resources.
 

Oh please, have you seen the CW, homeland of Millenial Cheese Cake? That channel has more six packs on display then The Beer Store and more gorgeous actresses then well old beer commercials used to. Neckbeard fantasies have nothing on that. Human nature is human nature.
The guy yelling out conspiracy theories to motorists driving by on a corner near my house has a bigger audience than the CW.

If you ask kids what broadcast television channels they watch nowadays, most of them will give you baffled looks.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The guy yelling out conspiracy theories to motorists driving by on a corner near my house has a bigger audience than the CW.

If you ask kids what broadcast television channels they watch nowadays, most of them will give you baffled looks.
Citing a network with a small male audience aged 18-34 that specializes in superhero and paranormal fiction show surely doesn't really do much to counter the claim that sex appeal is for neckbeards.
 

whereas if they do something which is also a hit with Boomers and Gen X, you have a hell of lot more people watching it at actual time of broadcast, but the streaming views are relatively lower.
Really, because the only person in the UK I know who is still watching live TV is my dad, and he is seriously pre-boomer!
 

I guess I'm still stuck on the "but why?". You could do it. But you make Jakandor or Ghostwalk playable and appealing to a modern audience than DL, and I'm not even joking lol. Jakandor actually kind of has potential even, hilariously enough. Hell so does Ghostwalk, but I think Ravenloft takes too much of the same space. Seriously though with your approach I think it would be significantly more viable to make either of them work in 5E than DL.
I make a lot of Jakandor jokes, but if they were launching the setting today, it would be a solid base hit, as opposed to the weird failure that it was in our world. The clash of two cultures, with both of them portrayed sympathetically, fits an era where we've now had tons of prestige TV showing us that sort of complexity and empathy.
 

Rikka66

Adventurer
Citing a network with a small male audience aged 18-34 that specializes in superhero and paranormal fiction show surely doesn't really do much to counter the claim that sex appeal is for neckbeards.

The CW traditionally has a much heavier female leaning viewership. The Arrowverse has shook that up, of course, but stuff like Riverdale is very much with women viewers in mind.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The CW traditionally has a much heavier female leaning viewership. The Arrowverse has shook that up, of course, but stuff like Riverdale is very much with women viewers in mind.
They lost the female audience a bit in the midterms, or that's what they said when they tried to revitalize the brand with shows like Riverdale.
 

One of the reasons I expect to see something out of Dragonlance eventually is how Ravenloft is now being presented, as not just a world but a toolset on how to run different forms of horror in fantasy. As enunciated in the DMG, Dragonlance is D&D’s epic/romantic fantasy setting, the sort of world whose story rules would apply to campaigning in a Round Table or Chansons de Roland campaign. Combine that with an avenue for finally presenting mass battle rules for 5e, and the actual world-specific plot and character widgets are gravy for designing a Dragonlance book à la Van Richten’s Guide.
Couldn't they do that with a Throne of Eldraine book, which has more of a recent audience than fantasy books that, again, don't appear in Amazon's top 100 fantasy sellers? I don't know that there's much player-facing content in Dragonlance that many people would get excited about.

In fact, putting kender, gully dwarves and tinker gnomes in a 5E Dragonlance book -- all of which seem guaranteed, and kender first appeared in the D&D Next playtest document -- would bring people out of the woodwork to say they don't want this book and that WotC shouldn't publish it.

The amount of work required to rehabilitate Krynn for 2021/2022 standards is substantial and there's the real risk that you'd lose whatever built-in audience it has, in favor of bringing in a potential audience -- maybe.

If I were looking for a romantic fantasy setting as a DM (and I've thought about it, based on one of my players), I would go with Blue Rose, which is politically almost the antithesis of Dragonlance, as those who remember the howls of outrage about it during the 3E era remember.
 

And Joe Manganiello has said he has seen the Draconian playtest material for Dragonlance. So unless they have changed their minds, Dragonlance is one of the 3 Settings.
They had kender in the D&D Next playtest document. We have no way of knowing how old that Dragonlance playtest material was. WotC clearly changed their minds at some point, since there's no 5E kender running around at the moment. The real question is whether they've changed it back.
 

I mean, does this mean that dragonborn and tieflings will be in Dark Sun? Or is that not a "core rules setting?"
Given that turning into dragons is a THING in Dark Sun, it doesn't seem like it'd be hard to bring in dragonborn, with an alternate origin for them. (Maybe, like in 3E, player character dragonborns are some of the very first ones to exist.)
 





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