Which outsider abilities do Planetouched races get?

[Thanee]

Anyway, so you are arguing that the racial traits override the type traits?

Since it pretty specifically says so in the Outsider type description... yes.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Prism]

I voted for all three since I don't accept the argument between racial hit dice and no racial hit dice. The stat blocks and examples under the specific creature are not complete entries and therefore the fact that the MM planetouched examples don't mention all three abilites doesn't mean they don't get them. Hound Archon doesn't mention them either but I doubt many would argue that the hound archon paladin has to sleep and eat

 

[Cam Banks]

The information regarding weapon proficiencies is given for the creature type because in a situation where you only have racial hit dice, you need to know what those are, just as you would if you only had class levels. You ignore those racial proficiencies when you only have class levels and no racial hit dice. I think that's pretty obvious. I think the problem comes with the fact that all of the PHB races are humanoids, and so in the MM they note "all simple weapons, or by character class" when discussing what weapon and armor proficiencies humanoids get. If planetouched were in the core PHB from the start, they might have added "or by character class" to the outsider (native) entry in the MM. Or not.



Cheers,
Cam

 

[Scion]

You ignore those racial proficiencies when you only have class levels and no racial hit dice.

And where does it state this? Explicitly, if you would be so kind.

 

[Thanee]

I voted for all three since I don't accept the argument between racial hit dice and no racial hit dice. The stat blocks and examples under the specific creature are not complete entries and therefore the fact that the MM planetouched examples don't mention all three abilites doesn't mean they don't get them. Hound Archon doesn't mention them either but I doubt many would argue that the hound archon paladin has to sleep and eat

Right. That's why I think the difference should be with the racial hit dice, actually, because that is the most consistent view, as it mirrors the way classes work, and racial hit dice work exactly like a class.

It doesn't really say so anywhere, but it only really makes sense this way. To me, anyways.

There is a lot of stuff, that isn't explicitly written out in the rules, but which is still obvious enough. For example, how wizards learn spells, and that they can only learn spells, which they can actually cast. There is no restriction anywhere in the D&D rules, detailing what spells wizards can learn AFAIK, but still I doubt anyone would seriously argue, that wizards can simply learn cleric or druid spells (which are not also on the wizard class list).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Cam Banks]

And where does it state this? Explicitly, if you would be so kind.

I don't need to. In the rare occasion where this occurs (namely, the aasimar and tiefling) the "as characters" section clearly explains which outsider abilities and features the character gets. You'll note that neither of the 1st-level planetouched warriors have all good saves like the outsider type typically gains, and abilities such as darkvision are explicitly mentioned. Under "racial feats", as others have said, it explicitly states that the planetouched races only gain feats from class levels.

As I said, I believe that if the designers had originally planned for people to play planetouched characters as often as they would play dwarves, elves, or halflings, there would have been a greater effort made to clarify this phenomenon. As it is, the "use class levels only" mechanic occurs 99% of the time with humanoids, which is why that type entry states it.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Cabral]

I don't need to. In the rare occasion where this occurs (namely, the aasimar and tiefling) the "as characters" section clearly explains which outsider abilities and features the character gets. You'll note that neither of the 1st-level planetouched warriors have all good saves like the outsider type typically gains, and abilities such as darkvision are explicitly mentioned. Under "racial feats", as others have said, it explicitly states that the planetouched races only gain feats from class levels.

As I said, I believe that if the designers had originally planned for people to play planetouched characters as often as they would play dwarves, elves, or halflings, there would have been a greater effort made to clarify this phenomenon. As it is, the "use class levels only" mechanic occurs 99% of the time with humanoids, which is why that type entry states it.

Cheers,
Cam

The d8 hit dice, All good saves, fighter BAB, and skill points only apply to hit dice progression. Except in the case of Undead (and Contructs?) the racial hit die progression never overrides the class progression. Even in the case of Undead, it only changes the hit die type.

1 An outsider, unless otherwise stated in its entry, gains Darkvision 60'
2 An outsider, unless otherwise stated in its entry, cannot be raised (overriden by Native subtype)
3 An outsider, unless otherwise stated in its entry, is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry
4 An outsider, unless otherwise stated in its entry, Proficient with whatever armor it is described as wearing, as well as lighter types. They are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any type of armor
5 An outsider, unless otherwise stated in its entry, do not breathe, eat, or sleep. (overriden by Native subtype)

There is nothing to indicate that these only apply to outsiders with racial hit dice.

Under racial feats, it says planetouched gain feats by class, but it does not say "only by class". There is nothing stating that those feats override the feats by type.

The only argument that holds water is that the designers have established a convention that in the "characters" section, they list every possible benefit characters gain from their race. However, even this argument doesn't hold water. A lizardfolk gains weapon proficiencies from being a Humanoid (it has racial hit dice), but those proficiencies are not listed in the "Lizardfolk as Characters" section.

Reference: Lizardfolk

I think proficiencies from a creature's type are just something that got overlooked by the designers.

 

[TheEvil]

I don't need to. In the rare occasion where this occurs (namely, the aasimar and tiefling) the "as characters" section clearly explains which outsider abilities and features the character gets. You'll note that neither of the 1st-level planetouched warriors have all good saves like the outsider type typically gains, and abilities such as darkvision are explicitly mentioned. Under "racial feats", as others have said, it explicitly states that the planetouched races only gain feats from class levels.

In the racial traits it doesn't mention a need to eat, sleep or breath. It only says this in the type entry. Would you argue that they don't need to because it doesn't say it under the race?

As I said, I believe that if the designers had originally planned for people to play planetouched characters as often as they would play dwarves, elves, or halflings, there would have been a greater effort made to clarify this phenomenon. As it is, the "use class levels only" mechanic occurs 99% of the time with humanoids, which is why that type entry states it.

Cheers,
Cam

Boy, THAT is the truth, whatever their intentions.

 

[Thanee]

I think proficiencies from a creature's type are just something that got overlooked by the designers.

That is pretty much all there is to it. They probably thought it is obvious enough, who gets them and who doesn't.

And I still stand to my opinion, that the weapon and armor proficiencies are part of the racial class, like with any other class in the game.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Prism]

I don't need to. In the rare occasion where this occurs (namely, the aasimar and tiefling) the "as characters" section clearly explains which outsider abilities and features the character gets.

As Cabral points out the "as characters" section for most creatures in the MM miss certain abilities/traits/features that the type normally gets. You need to check the appendix to add the missing ones.