Which rules are 'flavour' rules?

[Utrecht]

Arcane Spell Failure for armor.

Not that I agree with this, but at a minimum, I would require the Still Spell Feat and then not bump up the Spell Level. A wizard simply has to pay SOME cost to cast wearing armor.

 

[Xarlen]

Not that I agree with this, but at a minimum, I would require the Still Spell Feat and then not bump up the Spell Level. A wizard simply has to pay SOME cost to cast wearing armor.

Well, it Was allowed in 1e. But that's not a good arguement.

Hey, it can be done with a Mithril buckler. Or devise a +1 enchantment that reduces spell failure by 5% or 10% a pop.

But do Something about it. I like the no thingie for Still.

 

[kenjib]

Seeing as you can get that for about 50 GP (Potion of Mage Armor, Scroll of Shield), not much a problem.

That's a one-shot deal Xarlen. A suit of armor and shield are decidedly not. Not only do all of those bonuses stack, which only further compounds the too-high AC problem, but those kinds of bonus arrays aren't available and/or practical until very high levels.

To a low level mage, complete freedom to wear armor is a huge increase in power.

 

[Xarlen]

I still think it's a flavor rule. A mage should be able to use Some sort of armor. Compare him to the Cleric who has immense power, and depending on domains, powerful Boom spells (Among others). Not to mention so can Psions, but then Psions are weaker (Unless ITCK is used).

I'd like to see Arcane Knights. I'd like to see the Fighter/Wizard work without crippling him (Yes, I'm aware of the Spellsword).

Perhaps develop it as a class thing. At around 7th level or so, start to get a reduction in Spell failure. Hell, offer this to Sorcerors earlier. Or a feat that allows them to reduce ASF.

 

[hong]

Base: 10
Dex 20 (doubly-empowered cat's grace): 5
Full plate +5: 13
Heavy metal shield +5: 7
Shield (spell): 7
Haste: 4
+5 ring of protection: 5
+5 amulet of natural armour: 5
=total AC 56

That's definitely excessive.

Shield is range: personal only, and most people already think it's too powerful; hack it down to a +4 bonus if you like, or dump it entirely. Full plate has a +1 max Dex bonus. And note I did mention putting haste on the tank in the previous writeup.

As far as mages not standing a chance in battle, they aren't supposed to go toe-to-toe. That's kinda the whole point.

Heh. You should check out some time what a battlemage with Tenser's transform and polymorph stacked on top of all that can do.

 

[hong]

If you were to stick the mage into the same armor that the fighter was in then you have given back the two spells that he needs to have a comparable AC.

... for the cost of 1520 gp (full plate + shield).

At any level this can make a differece, but more so for low.

Good. Low-level wizards are too fragile as it is.

 

[aNenuphar]

Re: Re: Which rules are 'flavour' rules?

I think which class is favored is a flavor rule, but I think the existence of them is not wholly a flavor rule... they help limit the number of "1 level" classes you can reasonably take, which helps prevent some ridiculous combinations.

I stand (or rather sit) corrected. My original statement was far from clear; I agree with you completely.

 

[kenjib]

Good. Low-level wizards are too fragile as it is.

By saying which you imply that it is more than flavor, because it is changing the class balance, albeit in a good way in your opinion.

 

[hong]

By saying which you imply that it is more than flavor, because it is changing the class balance, albeit in a good way in your opinion.

Yes, dear.

There's no such thing as a rule change that never impacts balance. The point is that allowing wizards and sorcs to wear armour will not make them more powerful in any significant way later on, while allowing them to be more survivable earlier on.

A smart 1st level wizard in full plate will still not want to close to melee, because 1d4 hit points per level, no weapon proficiencies to speak of and no _armour_ proficiencies at all does not make for a useful melee character. Even if they rarely get hit, they don't have enough of a hit point buffer to risk it, and they're not going to be able to hit anything in return. However, they do become more survivable against threats like archers and other ranged threats, which as I said, is a good thing.

Conversely, at _high_ levels, wearing heavy armour doesn't give the wizard anything he couldn't get already. The only component of the AC buffup suite that stacks with armour is shield, and it's trivial to get rid of it or power it down. And haste, but that's something that everyone can use.

In fact, the smart wizard may well decide not to bother with heavy armour anyway, because it slows you down. Moving at 20' is not usually good, especially if your survival depends on running away from threats rather than standing around and duking it out.

 

[Deadguy]

Or leave a spell slot open.

Even discounting that, I think you are remiss in dismissing what the wizard CAN do PERIOD by simply assuming that not having it immediately handy totally answers the question. To some extent it does (and this is the side I am arguing on NL). But being able to teleport AT ALL with a bit of study is still a significant boon over not being able to. Likewise knock, read thoughts, throw up a wall of force, etc.

Oh, I wasn't discounting that they can leave slots open - as you observe my remarks were based on the fact that it's good to have the a slot free to be able to get teh right spell for the circumstance. It is somewhat more flexibility, but it is balanced by the limited number of slots available. A wizard cannot afford to leave many slots open, since he's making a sizeable sacrifice of potential power if he does. But if he can only prep the right spell once or twice, he may well not be able to achieve his objectives despite that (teleport is a good example, since one teleport spell by itself may well be insufficient).

Personally I find that those playing Wizards must recognise that Sorcerers will outdo them on sheer power, but that they are the ultimate in flexible tools. Or they would be, if scribing spells into their (fragile) spellbooks wasn't so damned expensive. At least they have the bonus feats to learn Item Creation feats, to make some money to pay for things!