Which "Tactical" TTRPG Would Work Best As An X-Com Like?

[Reynard]

I keep going back to this idea of running a campaign heavily inspired by X-Com and similar tactical RPG video games. To be specific, I mean highly detailed grid based combat missions, with base building, gear upgrading, character advancement and some "story" advancement happening in between. (I know some folks will balk at X-Com and this setup being an actual RPG, but I am not realliy interested in that debate.)

My question is which TTRPG will best support that play loop? I kind of want to go with Savage Worlds, except SWADE is not very granular with gear, meaning the research and upgrade part of the loop is not going to be especially engaging. I am sort of interested in seeing if Starfinder2E would work, but it might be too much.

Thoughts?

Just as a note: merely naming a game won't do me a lot of good. Please explain how you think it would work well. Also, games with fan licenses or even open licenses are a plus.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I write this both 100% seriously, and 100% jokingly.

You want to go full tactical? You want to play a TTRPG that does highly detailed combat missions? You want to get into the nitty-gritty of combat? You want your TTRPG to go all the way?

Dig up a copy of Phoenix Command* and knock yourself out. Grab some of the supplements depending on what you want to play- maybe the WW2 supplement? Or the High Tech supplement?

You will get granular. Granular with gear. Granular with combat. Story? Eh, not so granular- but it doesn't look like you're into that for this experience.

The reason I bring this up is because Phoenix Command does (did?) have a lot of hardcore fans. But it also, IMO, exemplifies what things RPGs do well, and what things they don't do quite as well- but that automated processes (such as exist in videogames) do quite well. This might be something that provides insight into what you're looking for. Or not.



*In the alternative, go for Living Steel. It gives a ... more complete RPG aspect.

 

[dbm]

I think the easiest answer to this would be addressing the tech element for SWADE. That could be done fairly easily IMO. For example, energy weapons becoming available vs using ballistic weapons would be a big change given how ballistic protection works in SWADE. Looking at how super-high tech is done in the Sci-Fi companion and Rifts would give some clear suggestions for how to implement this.

GURPS would also be a good answer in my opinion, as it has the breadth of scope and granularity to represent both the challenges of implementing new tech and the befits of the same. There is an X-Com style third party box set which will be coming to crowdfunding in the near future - if you are happy to wait that could be an option for a pre-made solution.

 

[Reynard]

I think the easiest answer to this would be addressing the tech element for SWADE. That could be done fairly easily IMO. For example, energy weapons becoming available vs using ballistic weapons would be a big change given how ballistic protection works in SWADE. Looking at how super-high tech is done in the Sci-Fi companion and Rifts would give some clear suggestions for how to implement this.

GURPS would also be a good answer in my opinion, as it has the breadth of scope and granularity to represent both the challenges of implementing new tech and the befits of the same. There is an X-Com style third party box set which will be coming to crowdfunding in the near future - if you are happy to wait that could be an option for a pre-made solution.

To be more specific, I am not looking to play X-Com. I have my own setting and threat force in mind. But point taken: it might be easier to crunchy up certain aspects of SWADE.

 

[Reynard]

I write this both 100% seriously, and 100% jokingly.

You want to go full tactical? You want to play a TTRPG that does highly detailed combat missions? You want to get into the nitty-gritty of combat? You want your TTRPG to go all the way?

Dig up a copy of Phoenix Command* and knock yourself out. Grab some of the supplements depending on what you want to play- maybe the WW2 supplement? Or the High Tech supplement?

You will get granular. Granular with gear. Granular with combat. Story? Eh, not so granular- but it doesn't look like you're into that for this experience.

The reason I bring this up is because Phoenix Command does (did?) have a lot of hardcore fans. But it also, IMO, exemplifies what things RPGs do well, and what things they don't do quite as well- but that automated processes (such as exist in videogames) do quite well. This might be something that provides insight into what you're looking for. Or not.



*In the alternative, go for Living Steel. It gives a ... more complete RPG aspect.

The goal is not to make it hard, but to make tactical, positioning based combat important and fun, and to make the "downtime" elements of the genre worthwhile and meaningful choices.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Tracking it back, X-Com was based on the Snapshot and Ashanti High Lighting games produced for the Traveller RPG.

So Traveller.

 

[Reynard]

Tracking it back, X-Com was based on the Snapshot and Ashanti High Lighting games produced for the Traveller RPG.

So Traveller.

I have only played traveller a few times and we do not use a grid or minis. Does Traveller have good positional tactical rules?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have only played traveller a few times and we do not use a grid or minis. Does Traveller have good positional tactical rules?

No, that's what Snapshot added. Not sure if Mongoose are currently publishing it though.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The goal is not to make it hard, but to make tactical, positioning based combat important and fun, and to make the "downtime" elements of the genre worthwhile and meaningful choices.

...I get it. I guess I should explain my totally serious, yet totally joking, answer more.

There are certain games I often think about- you might even know which ones they are because I reference them fairly often! I think that those games were valuable for me because they helped me understand what I did, and didn't, want out of a TTRPG.

Let me be more specific. Different people have different preferences. For example, some people are really into miniatures, and large set-piece battles, and tactical combat. They would probably be just as happy wargaming as roleplaying. Others? Not so much.

For me, I realized over the '80s and the '90s that there were certain things that I didn't enjoy in my TTRPG. Things that I preferred in ... say, a videogame. The benefit wasn't worth the time when it came to TTRPGs. When it comes to things like "super crunchy combat," or "advanced tactics," or anything that requires a lot of in-depth numbers and math and time ... I'd rather just have a computer handle all of that in the background while I concentrate on doing, rather than mathing.

It didn't mean I eschewed crunch completely- I still play D&D (TSR-era, 5e). But mostly, I gravitate to rule sets that are so small, I can drown 'em in a birdbath. But that's me.

The thing is- when you're looking at videogames that offer very granular choices- that's exactly what they do best. Same with making complex tactical decisions easy and fun in real time. But that's also what TTRPGs tend to do worse. Phoenix Command would be trivially easy for a computer to run, but (sorry, hardcore fans and engineers everywhere) it mostly fails as a TTRPG. The more granular and tactically interesting, the harder it is to simply have fun in real time.

That's not to say you can't have fun! I mean... there are a lot of people that still wargame. That still love taking the time to paint miniatures, and do complicated tactical battles. If you are looking to prioritize tactical, positioning-based combat, and make it important and fun ... why not just rip off the bandaid and try wargaming?

And I don't mean Warhammer 40k (unless you're, like, into that ... and have a lot of money). Battletech. Napoleonic. Bolt Action. I dunno... just dive in for the full combat experience and see how you like it?

 

[SteveC]

I'm not sure, but the most important thing is to lie about probabilities! Sure I have a 95% hit chance ... miss every time. No, I'm not bitter.