. . . while you're at it. . . Fix heavy armor!

[Warbringer]

Oddly enough you just described the Armour system from the original Palladium Fantasy RPG.

Bugger.... I gues sthat rules it out then ... Looks sheepishly around from Sembia's army of lawyers

 

[Warbringer]

(Incidentally, I just read an anecdote that in 1066 Harold marched his army 200 miles in 5 days. Even unarmored, I found that impressive.)

240 miles from Stamford Bridge (yes the home of Chelsea football) to Hastings between Sept 25 and Sept 28.

However, not to lessen the insanity of that pace, saxon armor was a light mail (chainmail), rather than a heavy armor.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

240 miles from Stamford Bridge (yes the home of Chelsea football) to Hastings between Sept 25 and Sept 28.

However, not to lessen the insanity of that pace, saxon armor was a light mail (chainmail), rather than a heavy armor.

I'd give my left eye for an army that could march that fast.

 

[Warbringer]

I'd give my left eye for an army that could march that fast.

LOL

 

[TwinBahamut]

240 miles from Stamford Bridge (yes the home of Chelsea football) to Hastings between Sept 25 and Sept 28.

However, not to lessen the insanity of that pace, saxon armor was a light mail (chainmail), rather than a heavy armor.

Keep in mind that chainmail is only a light armor in D&D. In the real world, it is quite heavy, and probably is more wearing on the shoulders than fullplate. It was the heaviest armor in existence at that time, I believe. It was what knights in tournaments wore. Fullplate is more protective than chainmail, but it isn't really heavier or more restrictive.

Of course, it also needs to be mentioned that the march to the Battle of Hastings by the English troops, after they had just already won one battle (against the Danes?), is considered to be the reason the English lost that battle, and ended up falling under the power of the Normans. Marching that hard just isn't good for an army.

 

[Gloombunny]

Keep in mind that chainmail is only a light armor in D&D. In the real world, it is quite heavy, and probably is more wearing on the shoulders than fullplate. It was the heaviest armor in existence at that time, I believe. It was what knights in tournaments wore. Fullplate is more protective than chainmail, but it isn't really heavier or more restrictive.

It's medium armor in D&D. "chain shirt" is light armor, but I always assumed that meant like a vest of very light chains, as opposed to a full hauberk made of thicker chain.

But yeah, you're absolutely right that it ought to have a bigger armor check penalty than plate.

(On a side note, it would be really awesome if 4e stopped using that redundant neologism "chainmail".)

 

[Hussar]

(On a side note, it would be really awesome if 4e stopped using that redundant neologism "chainmail".)

HERESY!!! If you thought the midden hit the windmill for some of the changes they've announced, imagine the thick storm that would fly from this.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

(On a side note, it would be really awesome if 4e stopped using that redundant neologism "chainmail".)

[silly]
Yep, seeing this "neologism" apparently came up in the 18th century, it's high time we went back to the more appropriate "mail" and confuse everyone of the new players WotC is trying to attract by making them wonder how a fighter is supposed to be protected by a bunch of emails.
(And people call themselves grognards because they started D&D with the three tiny booklets in the early 1970's. )
[/silly]

 

[Gloombunny]

[silly]
Yep, seeing this "neologism" apparently came up in the 18th century, it's high time we went back to the more appropriate "mail" and confuse everyone of the new players WotC is trying to attract by making them wonder how a fighter is supposed to be protected by a bunch of emails.
(And people call themselves grognards because they started D&D with the three tiny booklets in the early 1970's. )
[/silly]

Heh. It just bothers me because it's redundant, and it leads to people saying ridiculous things like "platemail".

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Heavy armor's great for heavy-armor types, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess it would help if you actually explained the basis of your gripe instead of just assuming everyone will go along with it.

It's not inadequate compared to other armor. It does what it should do: gives a big honking AC bonus in exchange for some reduced mobility.

Have you even played this game?

You'll notice there are plenty of other folks who managed to pick up the point of the post. There's a reason for that. . . and the reason is that heavy armor is NOT adequate as it currently operates.

If you're one of these people that believe heavy armor is a great choice currently, then you're probably wasting your time with this discussion. Nothing anybody says with regard to "fixes" is going to sway you since you disagree with the fundamental assumption of the thread.


As far as the poster who asked what my goals were in seeing the fixes. . . what I would like to see is:

1. Heavy armor optimized characters should ALWAYS be better protected than any other approach to defense. . . with respect to normal melee/missile damage. Magic damage, breath weapons, etc is something else.

2. Light/no armor characters should be less well protected, but more mobile/agile. There should be no way that they can increase their defense to be on par with a heavy armor wearer all other things being equal. (A well trained agility fighter might have better defense than a novice heavy armor wearer. . . maybe. . . but we're talking characters of equal level/resources here.)

3.. I'm fine with heavy armor restricting movement/agility. . . but the restrictions need to be commensurate with the defensive bonus/survivability increase.

4. I'm not particularly concerned about the historical properties/function of plate armor. This is fantasy. Fantasy IMO has fighters/knights that wander around in heavy armor. . even in dungeons. If you look at the old picture from the 1E PHB "A Paladin in Hell" (or the module cover of the same name) that epitomises the role of heavy armor in D&D.


I like the idea of armor as damage reduction, and think the Iron Heroes approach is a good one. It encourages people to wear as much armor as they possibly can given the other limitations they have to work with. This is as it should be IMO.