White Wolf: What's the Deal!?

Depends on whom you ask. In Germany, Call of Cthulhu is a huge hit - and judging by the amount of shelf space it seems to get in gaming stores, not far behind D&D in sales...

Actually, I think CoC is one of the best games. Even when I don't use the actual ruleset, I've used the adventures in Shadowrun & D20 modern. I just don't think it's quite receptive as an introduction to roleplaying.

I think Fantasy is easier to grasp as a game, and then the more "serious" games are transitioned into.
 

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As an aside, oWoD Changeling might have been useless to me, but the art was great. nWoD Changeling looked like a better game, but it probably has the worst art I have ever seen in a gamebook. It was actually a huge turn off for me. (Not that art makes it a worse game in any way, but when flipping through a book at Borders, the ease of reading/processing and the art are immediate concerns.)

The amusing thing here is that Changeling:The Lost just won an award at the Ennies for best interior art :) The new Changeling does a better job of projecting a feel for the game than the old game.

As far as people from WotC who post here, I know I've seen Ethan Skemp posting here before.

EDIT:Sometimes I'm dumb, I meant WW. Ethan knew what I meant tho heh
 
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The amusing thing here is that Changeling:The Lost just won an award at the Ennies for best interior art :) The new Changeling does a better job of projecting a feel for the game than the old game.
I don't play games based on their art, but I really enjoyed the old Changling game the few times I got to play it. The new one seems darker and more depressing...which probably appeals to WW's base, but not to me.
 

Depends on the setting, really. Hunter was a fun game, but it wasn't exactly the vampire hunter most folks expect from such a game. The other games also have issues. D&D has plenty of issues too, but fantasy hero is much easier for a relatable GAME, than the issues vampire and such raise.

Well, part of the thing with introducing folks to RPing, is to find out what they want to be, and what kind of stories they want to experience. Fantasy hero is easily to understand. Vampires might seem too "edge" for them. Hunters, depends on how they play.

Yes, but you're assuming I mean specifically Hunter or Vampire or the other WoD companion games. I mean World of Darkness. Just the core game, even. I was using Hunter as an example of their poor marketing skills (ie: someone here wasn't even sure if it had hit the shelf, I assume after they'd already gone the main site to check, where the date wasn't posted).

As for just core World of Darkness and accesability, I could probably argue that more people are familiar with the idea of regular people getting sucked into paranormal happenings (most scary movies/shows/books in existance) than they are with most fantasy archetypes. Yes, there are descrepancies to be had, but let's face it. Show a person new to RP a D&D character sheet and a World of Darkness character sheet and ask which one is more intimidating to them as a new player. It's not always about the core system. Sometimes it's just the simple imagery.

I just see so much unexplored potential. Which wouldn't be weird if the company hadn't published hundreds of book and been in role playing games longer than Wizards of the Coast. Sure, they don't have nearly the resources, but they should atleast know the importance of designing and updating a website.

-IV
 

The RSS feed? You mean I had to check/subscribe to the RSS feed to find out about the product launch? It's not on the main page for the company. It's not even on the main page for the game itself!
It's probably a limited release, for friends of the family only ;).
 

The amusing thing here is that Changeling:The Lost just won an award at the Ennies for best interior art :) The new Changeling does a better job of projecting a feel for the game than the old game.
Changeling: The Lost seems to have been quite a surprise success for the nWoD. They extended the line over the originally planned releases. The four Gold and two Silver ENnies for the game line seem to also hint into that direction. I quite like the game myself.

As for the rest of the nWoD, the line seemed to have some trouble. Judging from the release schedule, Vampire went okay, Mage seems to be a success, also the Mortals line, but Werewolf looks as if it tanked more or less completely. I can't imagine that Promethean had much appeal to the wider audience. The buzz for Hunter was limited. Perhaps the discussion about the plagiarized art helps with game recognition :D.
 

I looked around, yes, and you're right, I did notice staff members in the forums. But the forums aren't well orginized, or well populated.

The forums are busier than virtually every gaming site except for this one, WotC's boards and RPGNet. As for "organization" -- what the are you talking about? It uses the same format as virtually every other forum.

I'd check it out now to make a more concise point, but my connection timed-out every time I tried in the past hour.

Yeah, the entire company goes to the con, so when the site has problems, they don't get fixed. This seems to happen to about half the game sites out there around Gencon. Still, this is something that happens quite a bit and I wish they'd fix it.

It also means that marketing and promotion is suffering because no one is motivated into going out and selling to product proactively so that people are out there playing the game.

Not every company uses the same marketing strategy. I have a feeling that WW probably knows what it's doing, given that its last game exceeded expectations. In my experience, the company's focus is really on existing gaming groups, and spreading buzz through its word-of-mouth network.

I went to this site to check it out, but you can't view any of the content without signing up. This is terribly not-condusive to new players or people interested in getting into the game and it's community.

SNE does this to control costs and prevent spamming. The board is not an advertising medium. It's a fan-run site.

The RSS feed? You mean I had to check/subscribe to the RSS feed to find out about the product launch? It's not on the main page for the company. It's not even on the main page for the game itself!

Um, the RSS feed is *derived* from main site content. WW has said when the game was being released over and over and over again on its main site.

I have to say, that's an excellent point. But I've been to stores. I've been to three hobby shops in Northern New Jersey, two gaming stores in New York City (big place for a game to have no players in), and a few in Westchester county New York, too. I've always seen product, people always say they sell it, and that they don't know anyone who plays it. I've searched online, quite a bit. And while you may be completely correct, it just seems like (in my experience) that these games don't have any sort of strong community presence or opportunity for play if you're

You're . . . what? Looking for a game without a group? There's chat play and the existing forums, and you can post at your FLGS, same as for any other game.

Yes, and I still might! I'm just sad that I couldn't find anything on my own. I suppose that's gonna be my last ditch effort.

Why is it your "last ditch" effort? If you want to boost the game at a local convention, let them know.

Otherwise, what do you expect exactly? The game as a downloadable and free print demo, a forum for discussion and the WoD line has an active play community spread out through multiple fora. There is really only so much any company can do before it hits the point of diminishing returns. WotC has what it has because of sales volume and the fact that with DDI, it *must* get significantly higher returns. The company needs people to join, and that drives how much marketing its willing to do.

In my experience, WW traditionally has more of a hands-off approach to its player network, because that network has a facility for self-organization and recruitment that makes it distinctive. The only time it's ever taken a strong hand in it is when the former Camarilla started to show signs of blatant mismanagement and presumed upon the company's IP.

The drawback of this is that with things in the hands of fans, there's a degree of chaos and critical straight talk you won't find in other communities, but at the core, people are buying the books and playing the games, and that's what's important. In terms of play, the company has really dragged itself out of the hands of non-playing hobbyists. As someone who worked on the old Mage (where I think this almost tanked the line early), it's very refreshing to see discussion in the new game move from armchair GMs to people who actually bring up play.
 
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From what I have read from the developers, Werewolf is doing fine the feeling of it doing poorly is that they are leaving off some of the books till later while other things are worked on.

While Vampire probably doesn't have the overwhelming success that its predecessor had, I am sure it is doing quite well, same with Mage.

Mortal obviously does well since without it you can't play :P

Apparently Promethean sold better then expected since White Wolf knew it be a very niche game. I personally am so glad they put creativity and such ahead of the bottom line when it came to Promethean since it is my all time favourite P&P.

Hunter sounds like so far it has done well, atleast amongst the rest of the WoD community, though yeah doubt it will reach the souring numbers of Changeling.

I wonder how Geist will do, it sounds like it may harkon back to Wraith or Orpheus.
 


White Wolf's books are good. Their authors are often top-notch and can not just come up with some interesting rules, but, more importantly, tell a gripping story that makes you want to play their game and be a part of them. But their website has always been kinda hit or miss. I'd get disconnected two or three times a year, and then my username/password wouldn't work anymore, and I'd have to come up with another one. *Active* threads would just vanish, never to be seen again, even ones started by game developers asking for eratta/input. And the moderator would occasionally flip out, name-calling people in a fairly histrionic tone and deleting all posts by anyone that he'd deemed to be 'dishonorable.' (The crime that got all of my posts deleted one year was telling someone on the forums I *wouldn't* scan / upload some information from one of their books for him. Apparently, even saying that you *won't* rip off one of their books counts as ripping off one of their books!)

The authors *do* post quite a lot to the forums (or, at least, they *did*, back when I was in regular discussions with the Trinity, Adventure! and Scarred Lands folk). Since they didn't have colored names or any sort of indicator that the person was a Dev, or a DevTracker sort of thread (not that their forum software would have been able to link to posts anyway, I imagine), it would be easy for someone who doesn't know them all by name to realize that people with names like BlackHatMatt, Barastrando, Mouseferatu, Kali or El Bastardo were actually writers or even fulltime employees and not just fellow posters. Even some of the writers might have had the problem I had with constantly losing the username/login, as several of the above-named changed their usernames two or more times, possibly adding to the confusion...

On the other hand, the writers also give as good as they get, and a critical poster can quickly get gang-banged by multiple writers jumping to each others defense, making it a very wild west kinda place to shoot your mouth off. :) It can be fun, at times, and a little overwhelming at others to realize that you just got in a flame-war with someone whose work you admire and whom you are also working with on a project...
 

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