Shades of Eternity
Legend
the way this thread has gone, seems thematically appropriate 
Last edited:
D&D General Whom has used the Egg of Coot?
- Thread starter Shades of Eternity
- Start date
RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph (Your Grace/Your Eminence)
Whomst'd've had an issue with wording should probably stay out of threads in general.
RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph (Your Grace/Your Eminence)
Nowadays, I'd probably be even more meta with the Egg of Coot (bringing this back to the topic). Make it a memetic hazard. The reason why people describe it in contradictory ways is because the information itself causes havoc in minds: hallucinations, confusion, psychosis, etc. No living creature can describe it, and if nonliving things are used to gather information, that just delays the effect -- as soon as you view the information from the drone's footage, you are yourself affected because it is the information itself that is harmful. For reference, check out "The Riddle of the Universe and Its Solution" by Chris Cherniak, or any of David Langford's several stories featuring Basilisks: "BLIT", "comp.basilisk FAQ", "What Happened at Cambridge IV", and "Different Kinds of Darkness". In this case, the "person" referred to as the Egg of Coot could be an individual who has had a very drastic reaction to the infohazard; perhaps they even do have some special connection, but that just makes that individual a vector for the spread of the hazard (similar to the movie, "The Crazies").
Lakesidefantasy
Hero
The Sigil
Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
I always enjoy your well-researched threads, Snarf, and can appreciate that you would prefer to "go the primary source" as much as possible rather than get information from secondary sources like Mr Welch (I happen to be a big fan of his, but I'm not going to try to convince you to like him; different strokes for different folks). I would humbly suggest that there are some worthy nuggets of TTRPG history to be found on Youtube coming from "primary sources" so perhaps do not discount it entirely.
Interviews with some of Arneson and Gygax's original D&D players I find fascinating, for example - I found David Megarry's Dungeon! channel was a good place to start (here: David Megarry's Dungeon! ) but I have seen a number of interesting interviews with some of the oldest of old-timers over the years and I think even if the information comes in the form of oral history, the fact it's from primary sources makes it in my eyes as valuable as written history compiled later (the best sources are of course contemporaneous written sources).
I've touched on on the topic (I'd say briefly, but ... well, you've read me before) here-
But I think that the original responses in the thread might have been misconstrued- the OP was genuinely confusing to me, although I did want to discuss the Egg of Coot (I'm always up for discussions about the good stuff!). As for youtube, I don't deny that there is good stuff on there, but Morrus recently (and IMO wisely) made it a policy to not allow threads to be just "What do you think about this youtube video?" While the written discussion forum might not be the hot thing on the internet (the pivot to video is long past, we are now into the pivot to AI), there is value in written discourse that lasts longer than ephemeral discord chats, and for the most part I don't come to the EnWorld forums to watch videos - unless the person who posts the video explains in some detail what the video is about, why it is relevant to what they are discussing, and convinces me that I should watch the video.
(As a general rule, I find that youtube has some excellent and amazing resources if you seek them out, but they are surrounded by so much terrible click bait slop that I am very hesitant to trust new sources.)
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
I havent used the Egg of Coot, but it exists in my 5e Greyhawk setting to the far north coast of the Flanaess subcontinent. See the map from the 2024 Dungeon Masters Guide.
There, I have the Blackmoor village of Arneson as-is. Today Blackmoor is a still only a small fishing village, despite the entire region having been named after it in earlier history. The capital city of this wider region of Blackmoor relocated elsewhere long since. The famous "ruins" in Blackmoor, are specifically Ringo Hall, an ancient elven city, where powerful elven magical remains are still discovered on occasion. The historical village of Blackmoor is on the coastline of the southwest corner of the peninsula there.
Across the waters from the Blackmoor village, exists the Egg of Coot. For 5e Blackmoor, I translate it as an Aberration from the Farrealm. However, it is an ambient Farrealm influence, rather than an individual Aberration entity. Likewise the ambient Farrealm influence of the Aberrant Sorcerer feels at home there. In-setting, scholars debate whether the institution of the psionic aberrant sorcery originated from this region of Coot.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
This is to give a sense of exactly where the Egg of Coot is.
Here is a closeup of the far-north region of Arn, from the official 2024 Greyhawk map from the Dungeon Masters Guide, namely the map of the subcontinent Flannaess.
D&D 2024 renames the Region of Blackmoor as the region of "Arn", named after Arneson, one of the inventors of D&D. It is a place to put the setting that Arneson created. (Etymologically, the term arn- means "eagle", an appropriate name for a far north region.) The rename might be for copyright reasons, but honoring Arneson by name is cool.
In the original setting, the village of Blackmoor and the city of Greyhawk are local settings that exist in the same shared Flanaess subcontinent setting. The fact that Blackmoor is the first setting ever, is awesome, and is important to keep alive today. Eventually, both Blackmoor and Greyhawk were plugged into the same shared setting of Arneson and Gygax for the Castle & Crusade Society.
Here is a careful overlay of the original local setting from Arneson, onto the 2024 Flannaess map. Notice the different coastlines, but all the locations of the towns and villages are clear. See the location of the "Egg" of Coot between the labels of Blackmoor and Arn.
I went thru much effort to edit the 2024 map to make its coastlines match the Arneson map exactly. But I ended up deciding there is no need. The official 2024 map from the Dungeon Masters Guide works excellently as-is. In fact, even in the original Arneson canon, most of this is shallow marshland whose coastlines are ambiguous and changing anyway. There are even canonical regions of "Sinking Lands" sinking into the waters. The coastlines are in flux, and some of this geological upheaval can be explained by the subtle Farrealm reality-warping influences of the Egg of Coot region, as well as some canonical timey-wimey effects.
In sum, the differences in coastlines dont matter. The differences have never come up in my campaign, when using the 2024 map as-is. If they ever do turn out to require an explanation, it will be, "because magic", including reality-instability.
Note, in the original Arneson map, the Regent of the Mines is a mountainous area that is significant because it is a main access point to a kind of vast Underdark populated by a culture of dwarven miners. This Underdark has never been officially mapped, and who knows, it might be under the entire region of Arn! Perhaps the Regent of Mines that is now underwater is because this part of the Underdark collapsed. A new Regent of Mines can exist elsewhere as a main access point into the Underdark.
Also note the splotchy black square on the overlaid maps. This is the official location of the "ruins" that are in the region of Arn. When overlaying the Arneson setting onto the old Darlene map, it made sense to identify the ruins as that of Ringlo Hall. However, here on the 2024 map the ruins are in a different location closer to Bramwald. The Darlene map is more sketchy and suggestive of a medievalesque map pieced together from disparate sources. The new 2024 map looks more "technomagically" precise, drawn by cartographers employing accurate divination magic. In my earlier campaigns, the ruins are Ringo. But now in my new campaign for the 2024 map, the ruins are "Old Ringo". There is now also a "New Ringo", a different elven city named after it.
The 2024 region of Arn is nice because it is a pervasively magical area, yet it is almost entirely rural. The only urban locales are Dantredun in the distance − and even then "urban" is an exaggeration. Plus: "New Ringo" that I style as an elven magitech city that blends seemlessly within the natural woodland, alongwith the Underdark where various dwarven cities are. But the environs that adventureres normally come across are many people, but across modest farming and fishing villages. Arn is a great setting for an ambient old-school low-magic campaign − with a dash of old-school gonzo.
Here is a map of the original Blackmoor local setting locations, but instead using the official 5e 2024 map of Greyhawk. Notice where the Egg of Coot − and its psionic aberrant sorcery − locate.
Here is a closeup of the far-north region of Arn, from the official 2024 Greyhawk map from the Dungeon Masters Guide, namely the map of the subcontinent Flannaess.
D&D 2024 renames the Region of Blackmoor as the region of "Arn", named after Arneson, one of the inventors of D&D. It is a place to put the setting that Arneson created. (Etymologically, the term arn- means "eagle", an appropriate name for a far north region.) The rename might be for copyright reasons, but honoring Arneson by name is cool.
In the original setting, the village of Blackmoor and the city of Greyhawk are local settings that exist in the same shared Flanaess subcontinent setting. The fact that Blackmoor is the first setting ever, is awesome, and is important to keep alive today. Eventually, both Blackmoor and Greyhawk were plugged into the same shared setting of Arneson and Gygax for the Castle & Crusade Society.
Here is a careful overlay of the original local setting from Arneson, onto the 2024 Flannaess map. Notice the different coastlines, but all the locations of the towns and villages are clear. See the location of the "Egg" of Coot between the labels of Blackmoor and Arn.
I went thru much effort to edit the 2024 map to make its coastlines match the Arneson map exactly. But I ended up deciding there is no need. The official 2024 map from the Dungeon Masters Guide works excellently as-is. In fact, even in the original Arneson canon, most of this is shallow marshland whose coastlines are ambiguous and changing anyway. There are even canonical regions of "Sinking Lands" sinking into the waters. The coastlines are in flux, and some of this geological upheaval can be explained by the subtle Farrealm reality-warping influences of the Egg of Coot region, as well as some canonical timey-wimey effects.
In sum, the differences in coastlines dont matter. The differences have never come up in my campaign, when using the 2024 map as-is. If they ever do turn out to require an explanation, it will be, "because magic", including reality-instability.
Note, in the original Arneson map, the Regent of the Mines is a mountainous area that is significant because it is a main access point to a kind of vast Underdark populated by a culture of dwarven miners. This Underdark has never been officially mapped, and who knows, it might be under the entire region of Arn! Perhaps the Regent of Mines that is now underwater is because this part of the Underdark collapsed. A new Regent of Mines can exist elsewhere as a main access point into the Underdark.
Also note the splotchy black square on the overlaid maps. This is the official location of the "ruins" that are in the region of Arn. When overlaying the Arneson setting onto the old Darlene map, it made sense to identify the ruins as that of Ringlo Hall. However, here on the 2024 map the ruins are in a different location closer to Bramwald. The Darlene map is more sketchy and suggestive of a medievalesque map pieced together from disparate sources. The new 2024 map looks more "technomagically" precise, drawn by cartographers employing accurate divination magic. In my earlier campaigns, the ruins are Ringo. But now in my new campaign for the 2024 map, the ruins are "Old Ringo". There is now also a "New Ringo", a different elven city named after it.
The 2024 region of Arn is nice because it is a pervasively magical area, yet it is almost entirely rural. The only urban locales are Dantredun in the distance − and even then "urban" is an exaggeration. Plus: "New Ringo" that I style as an elven magitech city that blends seemlessly within the natural woodland, alongwith the Underdark where various dwarven cities are. But the environs that adventureres normally come across are many people, but across modest farming and fishing villages. Arn is a great setting for an ambient old-school low-magic campaign − with a dash of old-school gonzo.
Here is a map of the original Blackmoor local setting locations, but instead using the official 5e 2024 map of Greyhawk. Notice where the Egg of Coot − and its psionic aberrant sorcery − locate.
Last edited:
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
I added a few more points of interest to the Arn map in the earlier post.
The adventure module Temple of the Frog, is here in Arn, on Frog Island. On the map, the terrain name "Frog" is below the label of Dantredun. The Frog Temple locates above the "r" of Frog. The island is a low hilly area surrounded by a moat-like swamp. The adventure module City of the Gods is the ruins of an ancient aliens civilization, relating somewhat to the module Barrier Peaks. The City is in the Valley of the Ancients at the label for "Ancients Valley" in south edge of the map, locating at the point of the "v". The City radiates mutations, and mutant flora and fauna have recently taken hold in the vicinity.
Karsh on the west edge is an outpost of the Afridhi empire. In old school Blackmoor, the Afridhi were generic bad guys, similar to how the Drow were, with a fire god fanaticism instead of a spider demon. They were a human population with a nonhuman ancestral fire bloodline. But for 5e Arn, the Afridhi might make more sense as an aggressive religious faction of Fire Goliaths.
Orcs form their own communities as well as grow up in various other communities.
Translating to 5e, Arn features two local elven lineages, High and Wood. Here, the High Elf Cumasti inhabit the woodland areas that are in the vicinity of a Fey Crossing, and especially on the Blackmoor Peninsula. They are known for their ancient culture of magic and arts, where Wizards and Bards are prominent, along with Warlocks, Sorcerers, Artificers, and Psions. Their magitech cities blend seemlessly with dense forests forming from massive living trees. Pixies, Brownies, and other Fey are also present. Scholarly tourism visits their libraries of magical tomes. The Cumasti are known for their benevolence toward Humans and other Humanoids. In historical times, when local Humans betrayed this elven good will, a faction of Elves broke away from the Cumasti, eventually forming the Westryn Wood Elves. These isolationist communities celebrate athleticism and strength, where leaders are Druids, and Rangers and Barbarians enjoy prestige. These Wood Elves have communities in the forests of western Arn, and also in the wetlands. Today, Westryn contact with Human populations tends to happen via druidry. (The Cumasti and Westryn cultures inspire various backgrounds for character options.)
The Dwarves are Underdark culture with ancient surface outposts near their Underdark entrances. They are known for their monumental construction projects and mining activities including mineral trade and smithing of mithral, gold, iron, and various gems. Gnomes often participate in the engineering works. In the now-coastal Crystal Hills on the Blackmoor Peninsula, there is an ancient Dwarf city. As the area of the Regent of Mines has collapsed, Dwarves have upgraded the Underdark accesspoint in the Crystal Hills.
Lupin communites, namely Wolf Shifters, also populate the Crystal Hills and elsewhere across Arn, alongside Wolves, Worgs, and Werewolves.
Human communities are mainly Peshwah or Thonian. The Peshwah are an enclave of a Chakyik nomadic tribe (Tiger), with some ancestry from Flan nomads (rover) and Baklunish. Most Peshwah have settled in permanent towns in and near the wetlands. Thonians arrived as explorers and merchants, and are of mixed heritage from Oeridian and nearby Zeai who relate to the Jotunheim coastlands and the Suel North Kingdoms. In Arn, Thonian prominent families tend to form local governments. This emergent aristocracy networks via their education system, including bardic universities. Families immigrating from the Black Ice Guryik, the Burneal Forest Uirtag, and nearby Wegwuir nomads (Wolf) are also present.
The Blackmoor fishing village is well-connected. Its population is mainly Thonian, plus an Orc residence in the caves of the mountain of nearby Blackmoor Castle, and an elven unit from the Cumasti who help defend against Coot. A university campus maintains ties with aristocracy elsewhere and with the Cumasti magical schools.
There are two Halfling cultures. Docrai are indigenous, reputed for their warrior ethic and rough play. They form traditional Docrai communities across Arn. The Hin arrived alongside with Humans, as merchants, and are leaders in the entertainment industry. The town Ramshead is known for its prominent Hin population.
Starport is a multiethnic pleasure resort, with sex workers, gambling, and other entertainments. Historically, the town has destroyed several invading armies by bribing them, seducing them, and giving them whatever they want.
For 5e, Dragonborn coexist among the dragons in Spine of the Dragon, a continuum of mountain ranges also including Dragon Hills and Southern Dragon. These Dragonborn live alongside Kobolds and Lizardfolk − and various creatures transmogrified draconically by the presence of Ancient Dragons. All of these communities speak Draconic. Some venture in among Humans.
Regarding the Egg of Coot, the town of Ohmfet is under its influence, and includes Aberration-altered individuals from populations elsewhere. Originally, Arneson intended the Egg as a no-go zone to explain various combat encounters elsewhere. But the 5e explanation of aberrant sorcery makes the Egg influence more understandable and approachable. There can be Sorcerer player characters from there. The Egg is still in territorial conflict with its neighbors, and expanding its Farrealm influences. Glendower continues its function as one of the fortresses warding against the Egg. The shallow wetland that once separated them has drained, and Glendower faces more exposure.
Despite the remoteness of Arn, the region is rich with diverse communities and places of interest. Whether adventures explore the Temple of the Frog, quest for the civilization of ancient aliens, or confront the Farrealm incursion in Coot, there are lifetimes of old-school adventures in Arn.
The adventure module Temple of the Frog, is here in Arn, on Frog Island. On the map, the terrain name "Frog" is below the label of Dantredun. The Frog Temple locates above the "r" of Frog. The island is a low hilly area surrounded by a moat-like swamp. The adventure module City of the Gods is the ruins of an ancient aliens civilization, relating somewhat to the module Barrier Peaks. The City is in the Valley of the Ancients at the label for "Ancients Valley" in south edge of the map, locating at the point of the "v". The City radiates mutations, and mutant flora and fauna have recently taken hold in the vicinity.
Karsh on the west edge is an outpost of the Afridhi empire. In old school Blackmoor, the Afridhi were generic bad guys, similar to how the Drow were, with a fire god fanaticism instead of a spider demon. They were a human population with a nonhuman ancestral fire bloodline. But for 5e Arn, the Afridhi might make more sense as an aggressive religious faction of Fire Goliaths.
Orcs form their own communities as well as grow up in various other communities.
Translating to 5e, Arn features two local elven lineages, High and Wood. Here, the High Elf Cumasti inhabit the woodland areas that are in the vicinity of a Fey Crossing, and especially on the Blackmoor Peninsula. They are known for their ancient culture of magic and arts, where Wizards and Bards are prominent, along with Warlocks, Sorcerers, Artificers, and Psions. Their magitech cities blend seemlessly with dense forests forming from massive living trees. Pixies, Brownies, and other Fey are also present. Scholarly tourism visits their libraries of magical tomes. The Cumasti are known for their benevolence toward Humans and other Humanoids. In historical times, when local Humans betrayed this elven good will, a faction of Elves broke away from the Cumasti, eventually forming the Westryn Wood Elves. These isolationist communities celebrate athleticism and strength, where leaders are Druids, and Rangers and Barbarians enjoy prestige. These Wood Elves have communities in the forests of western Arn, and also in the wetlands. Today, Westryn contact with Human populations tends to happen via druidry. (The Cumasti and Westryn cultures inspire various backgrounds for character options.)
The Dwarves are Underdark culture with ancient surface outposts near their Underdark entrances. They are known for their monumental construction projects and mining activities including mineral trade and smithing of mithral, gold, iron, and various gems. Gnomes often participate in the engineering works. In the now-coastal Crystal Hills on the Blackmoor Peninsula, there is an ancient Dwarf city. As the area of the Regent of Mines has collapsed, Dwarves have upgraded the Underdark accesspoint in the Crystal Hills.
Lupin communites, namely Wolf Shifters, also populate the Crystal Hills and elsewhere across Arn, alongside Wolves, Worgs, and Werewolves.
Human communities are mainly Peshwah or Thonian. The Peshwah are an enclave of a Chakyik nomadic tribe (Tiger), with some ancestry from Flan nomads (rover) and Baklunish. Most Peshwah have settled in permanent towns in and near the wetlands. Thonians arrived as explorers and merchants, and are of mixed heritage from Oeridian and nearby Zeai who relate to the Jotunheim coastlands and the Suel North Kingdoms. In Arn, Thonian prominent families tend to form local governments. This emergent aristocracy networks via their education system, including bardic universities. Families immigrating from the Black Ice Guryik, the Burneal Forest Uirtag, and nearby Wegwuir nomads (Wolf) are also present.
The Blackmoor fishing village is well-connected. Its population is mainly Thonian, plus an Orc residence in the caves of the mountain of nearby Blackmoor Castle, and an elven unit from the Cumasti who help defend against Coot. A university campus maintains ties with aristocracy elsewhere and with the Cumasti magical schools.
There are two Halfling cultures. Docrai are indigenous, reputed for their warrior ethic and rough play. They form traditional Docrai communities across Arn. The Hin arrived alongside with Humans, as merchants, and are leaders in the entertainment industry. The town Ramshead is known for its prominent Hin population.
Starport is a multiethnic pleasure resort, with sex workers, gambling, and other entertainments. Historically, the town has destroyed several invading armies by bribing them, seducing them, and giving them whatever they want.
For 5e, Dragonborn coexist among the dragons in Spine of the Dragon, a continuum of mountain ranges also including Dragon Hills and Southern Dragon. These Dragonborn live alongside Kobolds and Lizardfolk − and various creatures transmogrified draconically by the presence of Ancient Dragons. All of these communities speak Draconic. Some venture in among Humans.
Regarding the Egg of Coot, the town of Ohmfet is under its influence, and includes Aberration-altered individuals from populations elsewhere. Originally, Arneson intended the Egg as a no-go zone to explain various combat encounters elsewhere. But the 5e explanation of aberrant sorcery makes the Egg influence more understandable and approachable. There can be Sorcerer player characters from there. The Egg is still in territorial conflict with its neighbors, and expanding its Farrealm influences. Glendower continues its function as one of the fortresses warding against the Egg. The shallow wetland that once separated them has drained, and Glendower faces more exposure.
Despite the remoteness of Arn, the region is rich with diverse communities and places of interest. Whether adventures explore the Temple of the Frog, quest for the civilization of ancient aliens, or confront the Farrealm incursion in Coot, there are lifetimes of old-school adventures in Arn.
Last edited:
