Who's happy about MMV being MMIV again?

[Vocenoctum]

What I didnt like were the references to classes in splat books. I saw a few that used Scout, Ninja, Unholy Scion, and Marshal classes and abilities, etc. I dont own the complete adventurer or miniatures handbook and I dont want to buy them either. I see no reason that the MMV wont follow the same example as the MMIV so I'll pass.

They included everything you needed, so that you specifically did NOT need the other books in order to use those classes. Sure, if you banned the Marshal from play, it doesn't matter. There is nothing to make you buy Miniatures Handbook though, all the info is there. (The Marshal is online for free though, but replace Ninja or whatever and same.) I mean, it's an opinion so it's just as valid either way, but if you don't like the book because you think it requires another book, that's in error.

I liked some of the Spawn myself, I've used quite a few. They make interesting changes of pace.

 

[Fishbone]

I liked some of the Spawn myself, I've used quite a few. They make interesting changes of pace.

That was the worst part to me. Look, I know Tiamat is modelled on some reptilian Mesopotamiam slutty bitch goddess but just because it springs from her loins doesn't mean it should take up 4 pages of book space. That stuff was just a bunch of uninspired padding.

 

[Vocenoctum]

That was the worst part to me. Look, I know Tiamat is modelled on some reptilian Mesopotamiam slutty bitch goddess but just because it springs from her loins doesn't mean it should take up 4 pages of book space. That stuff was just a bunch of uninspired padding.

Well, they're not LITERAL Spawn of Tiamat. It's more like a Plague of Monsters of divine origin. Whitespawn Hordelings just make neater swarm monsters than kobolds for me, and a lot of the bigger guys are nice tough monsters without going to Dragon or Dinosaur. It's sort of like having a bunch of demons, sure they're not all True Tannari or such, but variety is good. I mainly liked the Greens and Whites myself.

 

[Soel]

The classed monsters didn't need to take up as much space as they did in MMIV. It looks like diliberate padding. If you don't know what a drow or a gnoll are, then why the hell do you own MMIV? Simple stat-blocks with descriptor paragraphs would've sufficed.

MMV would benefit from a more varied selection than IV did. Gnolls, drow, lizardfolk etc. are overused, and can be found in many, many books/adventures. If they have to have classed monsters, I'd like to see some of the other, lesser exposed creatures get the treatment.

The new statblock was ok, but I miss the AC breakdown as well. I totally dig the ecology and lore sections. I don't game in FR or Eberron, but I can get some influence from the suggestions for use in these worlds.

I hope it also doesn't suffer from one huge new type of creature that soaks up the book, ala Spawn of Tiamat.

 

[Vocenoctum]

The classed monsters didn't need to take up as much space as they did in MMIV. It looks like diliberate padding. If you don't know what a drow or a gnoll are, then why the hell do you own MMIV? Simple stat-blocks with descriptor paragraphs would've sufficed.

I think WotC has shifted into a different mode where the new books are concerned. More about presentation than density of content. The new monster format is fine, but the magic item format irks me something fierce. Information is so light, I lose interest in the item before getting to what it does!

Delve format, new stat-blocks, new magic item blocks, even spells got a little revision. I don't think it's intentionally "padded" so much as they don't focus on providing as much as possible.

Most of the actual rules stuff is actually quite concise even.

 

[Pants]

MMV would benefit from a more varied selection than IV did. Gnolls, drow, lizardfolk etc. are overused, and can be found in many, many books/adventures. If they have to have classed monsters, I'd like to see some of the other, lesser exposed creatures get the treatment.

I think the key idea here is not that gnolls, drow, and lizardfolk (etc.) are overused, but that they're common foes. They're foes that DM's are likely to advance and throw at their players. Would 2 seperate stat-blocks of advanced fiendish phantom fungi be more useful for the average DM than some orcs or lizardfolk? Probably not.

As for the MMV, I'll look at it, I'll probably buy it too since monster books are my crack. I hope it's more new monsters than MMIV, I hope there are more conversions than MMIII and MMIV, and I hope the art is just as good as the last two.

 

[Dalamar]

I think WotC has shifted into a different mode where the new books are concerned. More about presentation than density of content. The new monster format is fine, but the magic item format irks me something fierce. Information is so light, I lose interest in the item before getting to what it does!

Delve format, new stat-blocks, new magic item blocks, even spells got a little revision. I don't think it's intentionally "padded" so much as they don't focus on providing as much as possible.

Most of the actual rules stuff is actually quite concise even.

I'm pretty much completely in agreement with this. MMIV did one thing that has been asked for since the 3.0 MM: each new (not just a variant) monster starts at the top of its own page. Unfortunately, that leads to whitespace when the previous monster entry wasn't quite long enough. That's what the "in XX" and the sample lair maps mostly try to fill.

 

[MerricB]

I think WotC has shifted into a different mode where the new books are concerned. More about presentation than density of content. The new monster format is fine, but the magic item format irks me something fierce. Information is so light, I lose interest in the item before getting to what it does!

From comments made by Wizards staff, the magic item format has been compressed significantly in the upcoming Magic Item Compendium.

I don't think Wizards are deaf to the complaints about the formats, but it takes time to implement changes.

Cheers!

 

[Vocenoctum]

From comments made by Wizards staff, the magic item format has been compressed significantly in the upcoming Magic Item Compendium.

I don't think Wizards are deaf to the complaints about the formats, but it takes time to implement changes.

Cheers!

Good to hear, that was my only real complaint on the expanded formats.

 

[Felon]

Regardless, how many monster books have come out since 3.5e? I think the format shift might be based on more than just "this will pad out the word count".

Well, I think the marketing of the minis line provided the big impetus for the heavy inclusion of classed monsters. For those who don't know, many of the critters in MMIV were actually based off of actual miniatures (all the drow, for instance). Then again, so were some of the new monsters, like bloodhulks and justicar archons.

Personally, I really thought the spawn of tiamat was where MMIV went really overboard. That was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much space devoted to one category of critters. Heck, they went overboard with them in the minis line too, come to think of it.