D&D 3E/3.5 Why 3.5 Worked

[Maxperson]

Except yes. It might not have been broken for you, but it always broke my game every time a druid took it.

Then it's not objectively broken. You just have a lower threshold for broken than I do, where broken = something more powerful than I'm comfortable with.

Why was it broken for your game?

 

[Gladius Legis]

Then it's not objectively broken. You just have a lower threshold for broken than I do, where broken = something more powerful than I'm comfortable with.

Why was it broken for your game?

I'm not going to answer you because you're always right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not going to answer you because you're always right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

If you say so. This isn't something that can be right or wrong, though. It's all about personal opinion with our respective games. I'm right about mine. You're right about yours. I'm just genuinely curious.

I'll go first if that helps. It wasn't broken in my game, because despite every druid taking it, I could easily challenge the druid and his party, so it didn't break my game.

 

[Gladius Legis]

If you say so. This isn't something that can be right or wrong, though. It's all about personal opinion with our respective games. I'm right about mine. You're right about yours. I'm just genuinely curious.

I'll go first if that helps. It wasn't broken in my game, because despite every druid taking it, I could easily challenge the druid and his party, so it didn't break my game.

OK. And it broke my games because it made every Druid who ever took it the most powerful character in the party by far*. Thus making the game not fun for anyone else in the party because they felt useless with the Druid doing anything their character could do better than their character could, and a whole lot more.

And sure, it's easy to challenge Druids. But what will challenge a Druid will overwhelm plenty of other characters.

*Until/unless Clerics got access to Divine Metamagic.

 

[Maxperson]

OK. And it broke my games because it made every Druid who ever took it the most powerful character in the party by far*. Thus making the game not fun for anyone else in the party because they felt useless with the Druid doing anything their character could do better than their character could, and a whole lot more.

And sure, it's easy to challenge Druids. But what will challenge a Druid will overwhelm plenty of other characters.

*Until/unless Clerics got access to Divine Metamagic.

It depends on how you set up the encounters. It also helped that my group doesn't really care about power disparity. I make sure everyone has stuff to do, so they all have fun.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[generic]

It depends on how you set up the encounters. It also helped that my group doesn't really care about power disparity. I make sure everyone has stuff to do, so they all have fun.

Thanks for the answer.

Well, nothing is particularly broken if you don't care about power disparity between player characters. But, many do, so it becomes a matter of perspective, and what 'broken' actually means.

I think, even as someone who likes many aspects of 3E, that for (sometimes) power gamers like myself and some of my players, 3E is an opportunity for absolutely insane and broken combos. IMO, 3E didn't ever work. It was always broken, but that is not exactly an objective statement.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, nothing is particularly broken if you don't care about power disparity between player characters. But, many do, so it becomes a matter of perspective, and what 'broken' actually means.

Which brings us right back to what I said earlier

I think, even as someone who likes many aspects of 3E, that for (sometimes) power gamers like myself and some of my players, 3E is an opportunity for absolutely insane and broken combos. IMO, 3E didn't ever work. It was always broken, but that is not exactly an objective statement.

I found a few things to be broken. Not many, though, and I just fixed those things by altering or removing them and moved on.

Overall, I found 3e to be a bit more high powered than I liked, but not broken as a whole. I like the power level 5e brings, but in my opinion, WotC went way too far in the other direction in an effort to avoid bloat. 3e released new mechanical content too frequently, but 5e hardly releases any at all, and most of it is monsters.

 

[Tony Vargas]

. IMO, 3E didn't ever work. It was always broken, but that is not exactly an objective statement.

Its an exaggeration. 3e worked quite well for the first 4-6 levels, longer depending on the classes involved. E6 held onto that sweet spot longer.

 

[generic]

Overall, I found 3e to be a bit more high powered than I liked, but not broken as a whole. I like the power level 5e brings, but in my opinion, WotC went way too far in the other direction in an effort to avoid bloat. 3e released new mechanical content too frequently, but 5e hardly releases any at all, and most of it is monsters.

Well, we can certainly agree that the content release rate is too 'safe' and a bit too slow/boring.

 

[generic]

Its an exaggeration. 3e worked quite well for the first 4-6 levels, longer depending on the classes involved. E6 held onto that sweet spot longer.

On that we can agree.