D&D 5E Why are non-caster Ranger themes so popular?

[Kinematics]

Something with.

Ranger (Base Class, Non-Caster)
-> Animal Companion Subclass
-> Half Caster Subclass
-> Archer Subclass

All seems pretty in line then?

Yeah, I helped with a ranger re-write over on the GITP forums, and that was the basic structure we ended up with (but 'Hunter' rather than 'Archer'). Put spellcasting in its own subclass, and that opens up a lot of design space for the main job.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I helped with a ranger re-write over on the GITP forums, and that was the basic structure we ended up with (but 'Hunter' rather than 'Archer'). Put spellcasting in its own subclass, and that opens up a lot of design space for the main job.

I definitely think that would be the best way to do it.

 

[Minigiant]

The other sub question is
Do we seek also a surnatural-less Ranger?

We shouldn't. Not for the PHB anyway.

Because D&D is supernatural by default and the ranger should be able to deal with supernatural issues. A lev

I am not sure what you are talking about when you say "occupations" a fighter can be a slaver or a soldier or a noble or part of the local mafia or own a trading company. A Rogue, Wizard or Cleric can do all those things too.

Most PCs have the occupation of "adventurer" or "hero" althous some venture out into similar society-type jobs and don't see a class really having much bearing on that.

I mean Ranger skills are a collection of skills to do a job.

Rangers aren't skilled at outdoorman shop, fighting, zoology, botany, and tracking for nothing.

It's because..

The Marquis said "Kill all the invading orcs"
The Elf king said "Kill all the Drow"
A dragon eat your parents so want to Kill the evil dragons.
The church declared a crusade so you must "Kill all the yuanti"
You are from ancient bloodlines and must "Protect these towns"
Fey are stealing kids for their armies. "Protect the children".
Desert caravans are being raided and attacked. "Protect the Sandy Road"
The Lords of the North want you to "Protect the North. Man the Wall"
The mages scry fiendish influences. You must "Close the portal. Kill all the demons".

Outdoorsmanship is just a tool to get the job done. Same with archery and TWF.

Why would rangers leave magic off the table of tools?

That's the issue. A ranger wouldn't.

People want to play noncasting rangers to mimic characters from low magic settings. But by default, D&D is a moderately magical setting. It makes sense that Rangers would consult druids, wizards, and fey for magic in D&D.

 

[Aldarc]

Because D&D is supernatural by default and the ranger should be able to deal with supernatural issues. A lev

Then we should make the Fighter, Rogues, Barbarians, and Monks into half-casters too then while we're at it.

I mean Ranger skills are a collection of skills to do a job.

Like all other classes, some of whom are non-magical.

Why would rangers leave magic off the table of tools?

Why would the non-magical classes either?

People want to play noncasting rangers to mimic characters from low magic settings. But by default, D&D is a moderately magical setting. It makes sense that Rangers would consult druids, wizards, and fey for magic in D&D.

Isn't this more special pleading that Rangers are somehow unique in this regard in comparison to other non-magical classes?

 

[Minigiant]

Then we should make the Fighter, Rogues, Barbarians, and Monks into half-casters too then while we're at it

No.

Because they don't need it to do they're jobs.

Think of it this way. What is the most common solo class in RPGs and MMOs?

Rangers/Hunters and "Red Mages".

Why?

Because when you are by yourself, you have to be your own Tank, DPS, Healer, CC, Pull, and Sneak.

Now look at the Ranger.

Either the Ranger, their animal companion, or their summons tank.
Either the Ranger, their animal companion, or their summons deal damage.
The ranger can heal.
The ranger or summons can control groups
The ranger can track/pull.
The ranger can sneak and scout.

Remember the base lore of the ranger is state they are alone or in the company of other rangers or escorted people. The ranger has to be a one man party.

The fighter, paladin, and barbarian are not expected to be alone. They don't adventure without backup or support. The military, church, or tribe will send support units.

 

[Aldarc]

No.

Because they don't need it to do they're jobs.

Neither does the Ranger, but we've already established that you're just engaged in special pleading here.

Think of it this way. What is the most common solo class in RPGs and MMOs?

Rangers/Hunters and "Red Mages".

Why?

Because when you are by yourself, you have to be your own Tank, DPS, Healer, CC, Pull, and Sneak.

Now look at the Ranger.

Either the Ranger, their animal companion, or their summons tank.
Either the Ranger, their animal companion, or their summons deal damage.
The ranger can heal.
The ranger or summons can control groups
The ranger can track/pull.
The ranger can sneak and scout.

Remember the base lore of the ranger is state they are alone or in the company of other rangers or escorted people. The ranger has to be a one man party.

[cites list of mostly non-magical rangers/hunters in fantasy MMOs here]

The fighter, paladin, and barbarian are not expected to be alone. They don't adventure without backup or support. The military, church, or tribe will send support units.

So will the Dunedain and/or Faramir's band of rangers, as we are told happened.

 

[Minigiant]

Neither does the Ranger, but we've already established that you're just engaged in special pleading here.

I think they do. Protection spells to avoid damage. Recovery spells to remove injuries, conditions, and curses. Control spells to corral and separate enemies.

Like I said before. The only ways to do these things in D&D is magic. Neither TSR, WOTC, or Paizo really put any real effort into put nonmagical tools.

That's the biggest issue with noncaster rangers in D&D. There literally are very few nonmagical tools and items that provide effects they need.

[cites list of mostly non-magical rangers/hunters in fantasy MMOs here]

You think those arrows explode without magic? Or the heal pet ability aren't magic? Or the summon trap that shots lighting, ice, or poison isn't magic?

So will the Dunedain and/or Faramir's band of rangers, as we are told happened

That's only when the funk hits the fan. On a normal mission is 1-4 rangers vs 1-10 orcs with backup 100 miles away.

 

[Aldarc]

I think they do. Protection spells to avoid damage. Recovery spells to remove injuries, conditions, and curses. Control spells to corral and separate enemies.

Like I said before. The only ways to do these things in D&D is magic. Neither TSR, WOTC, or Paizo really put any real effort into put nonmagical tools.

That's the biggest issue with noncaster rangers in D&D. There literally are very few nonmagical tools and items that provide effects they need.

But why is this only true for a Ranger? Why not apply this criticism consistently to the other non-magical classes rather than reserve it for solely the Ranger? How does this not hold equally true for the non-magical classes who likewise exist in and most be capable of dealing with a world of magic? I don't see how you're not just going around in circles with your special pleading that justifies the Ranger's magic. How are you not special pleading for the Ranger's magic?

You think those arrows explode without magic? Or the heal pet ability aren't magic? Or the summon trap that shots lighting, ice, or poison isn't magic?

Sounds like magic items and uncanny preternatural healing with the sort of flashy skill effect animations one would expect for a visual game.

That's only when the funk hits the fan. On a normal mission is 1-4 rangers vs 1-10 orcs with backup 100 miles away.

So now they have gone from being "alone" to being 1-4 rangers?

Also, remember all those Cimmerians from Conan the Barbarian's tribe who came to his aid? I don't but you clearly do.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Because they don't need it to do they're jobs.

Clearly, invisibility and teleportation are completely useless to rogues!

 

[Aldarc]

Clearly, invisibility and teleportation are completely useless to rogues!

Don't forget Knock, Spider Climb, Mirror Image, Alarm, Silent Image, Sleep, etc.