D&D 5E Why did they design Demiplane to suck?

[Damon_Tor]

And yet for some reason many people think that the demiplane can't grow this way: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?657678-Demiplane-walls

I think the language is ambiguous: "When opened, the door leads to a demiplane that appears to be an empty room 30 feet in each dimension, made of wood or stone." Emphasis mine; the spell doesn't actually say what the demiplane is made of or even how big it is, only how it appears. That's a really weird way to phrase a spell.

Basically, it comes down to "It doesn't say you can, so you can't" which is some combination of "doing it wrong" and "no fun allowed"

Even if you can't expand the demiplane, a 30 foot cube is large enough to hold a 3-story house.

 

[Maxperson]

Basically, it comes down to "It doesn't say you can, so you can't" which is some combination of "doing it wrong" and "no fun allowed"

Even if you can't expand the demiplane, a 30 foot cube is large enough to hold a 3-story house.

I amend that to, "It doesn't say you can, so you can't unless the DM allows it."

Personally, I would allow further castings to increase the size, but at increased cost. The second casting to double the size to a 60 foot cube takes 5000 gold worth of diamonds. A third casting to make a 120 foot cube would take 10000 gold worth of diamonds. A fourth to double it again would take 20000 gold worth of diamonds. And so on. I would also allow different gems to have different effects. Instead of diamonds, 5000 worth of sapphires could add a water feature. 5000 worth of emeralds would add X number of trees and bushes. 5000 worth of white pearls would add clouds and wind.

This would allows the wizard to eventually at great cost, make a small personalized plane. It's another way to spend the money that many complain that 5e gives, but doesn't tell them how to spend. And they can eventually have something really cool. They could import insects of types they like, birds, deer, etc. The wizard could import workers to build a castle if he wanted.

 

[Kurotowa]

Personally, I would allow further castings to increase the size, but at increased cost. The second casting to double the size to a 60 foot cube takes 5000 gold worth of diamonds.

Math check. When you double all three dimensions of a cube the volume increases by x8. Even if you want to uncap the Demiplane size that's probably a bit much for a single additional casting.

 

[77IM]

I guess I fail to see how a large demiplane could be a problem.

Suppose instead of a 30x30 room, it was "...a vast, featureless plane made of a stone-like substance that disappears if removed from the demiplane," how would players abuse that in a way that they couldn't with a 30x30 room?

 

[Maxperson]

Math check. When you double all three dimensions of a cube the volume increases by x8. Even if you want to uncap the Demiplane size that's probably a bit much for a single additional casting.

That doesn't bother me in the least. Most of that area is going to be up(air) or down(rock). So the creator can start making hills or maybe mountains after many castings and lots of money. Ultimately, it will just be a big private place instead of a small one, which is really cool.

 

[dave2008]

Even if you can't expand the demiplane, a 30 foot cube is large enough to hold a 3-story house.

at 2,700 sf that is a good size house, and very large compared to the typical peasant abode

 

[dave2008]

I guess I fail to see how a large demiplane could be a problem.

Suppose instead of a 30x30 room, it was "...a vast, featureless plane made of a stone-like substance that disappears if removed from the demiplane," how would players abuse that in a way that they couldn't with a 30x30 room?

You can store a lot more in a vast featureless plane than you can in a 30x30 room. Heck, you could transport an entire army with your vast plane. That seems like a big difference to me.

 

[Maxperson]

You can store a lot more in a vast featureless plane than you can in a 30x30 room. Heck, you could transport an entire army with your vast plane. That seems like a big difference to me.

It would take days to get an entire army through a door that is only open for an hour. Then more days to get them back out again. In the mean time, that first small portion of the army is in hostile territory. While you are dividing your army out into enemy territory over several days, you risk the loss of those portions. A large demiplane wouldn't be a grand instant army mover.

 

[dave2008]

It would take days to get an entire army through a door that is only open for an hour. Then more days to get them back out again. In the mean time, that first small portion of the army is in hostile territory. While you are dividing your army out into enemy territory over several days, you risk the loss of those portions. A large demiplane wouldn't be a grand instant army mover.

You can take as many days as you need to prep and you can get a significant number of people and equipment out of the demiplane in 1 hr. (approx. 4 miles of soldiers single file, which is roughly an army of 4,200 troops). That seems significantly more than the 36 soldiers in the RAW version. Now it would be less than 4000 with provisions and such depending on how organized/disorganized it is. But I image a well stocked force of 2000 or so soldiers could protect the wizard for a day until it is opened up to bring in another 2,000 or so.

 

[Maxperson]

You can take as many days as you need to prep and you can get a significant number of people and equipment out of the demiplane in 1 hr. (approx. 4 miles of soldiers single file, which is roughly an army of 4,200 troops). That seems significantly more than the 36 soldiers in the RAW version. Now it would be less than 4000 with provisions and such depending on how organized/disorganized it is. But I image a well stocked force of 2000 or so soldiers could protect the wizard for a day until it is opened up to bring in another 2,000 or so.

The thing is, if you are going to be close enough to strike something with surprise, you will be too close to rely on those 2000 men to protect you. Most places that you want to strike with an army, will have very sizable forces already there protecting it and those forces could make it out to overwhelm 2000, 4000 or even 6000 men, depending on how far away the invasion point is. If you are far enough away that an army won't be able to get to you in time to stop you from bringing over your army, then you are too far away to have surprise and they will be prepared for you.

It's certainly an advantage to be able to transport men that way, but it's not something overwhelming or broken.