Why did you stop subscribing to DDI?

[Arlough]

Okay, so if I am reading this right (feel free to tell me if I am mistaken) most of the loss seems to be focused on the recent changes to DDI, especially with regards to the CB.

Mostly it seems to break down to this, at least in the later posts.

• Online only CB does not suit my purposes.
• I am against leasing my game material.
• Wizards IP paranoia is making it hard for me to support them.
• I really don't feel I am getting $70 - $120 value out of this.
  - Software (Online CB) is buggy
  - Dungeon and Dragon have diminished in content/value
  - not yet enough tools to make it worth my time

Additional issues seem to be:

• Lack of e-book support.
• Lack of previous edition support. (sorry, I am kinda with WotC on this one)
• Lack of disposable income/different financial priorities.
• Broken promises/never gave me what I paid for.

Initially, I noticed that people were commenting on how they hated the CB change, and I wondered if this was just a luxury that we had grown so fond of that we felt hobbled without it. But, it seems to be more a value of product issue.

For you early posters, would you say that is the case? And, out of curiosity, how many of you are DM's at least 50% of the time you play?

 

[Arlough]

I didn't want to taint the pool before getting some responses, so I avoided posting my reasons until now. But, in the spirit of fairness, here are my reasons.

I was an early adopter, and subscribed for two years at the 50-something per year price. The first year was just a thorough test of the CB and Dungeon and Dragon magazine. I expected more tools to become available (like the VTT, or at least a functional Character Visualizer), because they were "coming soon" with all sorts of things for DM's and Players, but was mostly disappointed.
Then, when it came up for renewal, I was ready to let it expire, but they told me that I could keep my same rate and they would be releasing all sorts of new tools, so I paid another 50-something dollars.
I had hopes of an item builder that would allow for custom items to be added to the character builder, and an encounter manager that plugged into both the CB and the MB (by this time I was just a DM and no longer a player, and I figured that these would precede a VTT, that being the capstone of the DM tools). During that time, I found that Dragon had almost become worthless, given how unbalanced the power found within was (more power being a higher priority, it seemed, than different options) and Dungeon felt like I was reading a lot of blogs but not much content. And, by the time renewal came around again, and this time they wanted $71.40 from me and all the tools that I had paid $50+ for year prior still were not delivered. And I really began to resent this model. So I decided that from that point on, I wouldn't even buy a book from them that I hadn't reviewed in total.
Then, essentials came out, with all the errata that covered everything from redefining what an attack was, to giving a thief backstab and sneak attack, to the slayer (with Melee Training: Dex) making the fighter the best melee+archer ranger, again (just like in 3rd). And I realized (for myself, YMMV) that Wizards didn't know how to give me what I wanted. They only knew the "buy this booster because the cards are more powerful" model that had driven me away from Magic. (My favorite set of magic was "the Dark" because it was a setting, not a power-up.)
Now, they have a VTT (with encounter manager built in, I hope) coming out soon that should work with the CB and MB, and I don't care. They have lost me.
​

So I guess in summary, I feel like I am not getting value out of DDI, I feel like many rulings have been based on selling new products, and I don't feel like they are making my life as a DM easier. (Plus if I was just a player, I would not pay that much per year for a CB. But, as a DM, I would pay more per year to get a group licence for my game table.)

To draw me back, I would want the ability to houserule (accept/reject errata, give out custom items, give things like the taxpertice feats for free, etc.), have a combat manager, even if it was just an option in the VTT (or, have a group licence for my gaming group so we could use the VTT without all of them having to subscribe) and even with that, either give me more/better content in the magazines, or lower the price.

Also, I am currently a DM 100% of the time that we play, and I am almost always DM at least 50% of the time.

 

[Piratecat]

For me, the value of a DDI subscription depends on a few things:

- the completeness of the Compendium (all books included, all rules included.)
- the ability of the character builder to create and track the characters used in my game
- the usefulness of the monster builder for adjusting monster stats
- regular, interesting articles in Dragon/Dungeon that are compiled monthly

Right now they're falling down on several of these points. No more compiling of articles. The CB doesn't handle several simple house rules or unique items that we use, and doesn't provide adequate filters to simplify character creation (feat overload!), and doesn't let me mix and match Essentials and Dark Sun and standard characters. The Compendium is missing rules information (diseases come to mind.)

I still find it essential for DMing, because I need that monster and magic item lookup. Its value for me continues to drop, though, leaving me in a conundrum. Is there a point where I cancel completely and lose my access to the database? Does that mean I pick up books I didn't buy, or change game systems? I don't have any wonderful answers.

 

[the Jester]

My annual sub lapses next month and at present I have no intention of renewing.

The reason amounts to a decreasing quality and quantity of content. No more support for the offline CB was a blow; the online CB sucking so bad out of the gate (although in all fairness I haven't poked it since shortly after release) was a horrendous followup. Add to that discontinuing support of the offline Monster Builder with a final update that removed tons of content... well.

Then there is the fact that so much DDI material is now preview material. It's like buying a magazine with 10 pages of content and 30 pages of ads. I don't want to pay for that!

The crap-awful Dungeon Tiles based maps in Dungeon, the lack of real adventures (vs. delves), the "delve format" itself- all of these things are additional body blows to my desire to reup my subscription.

What would it take to get me to resubscribe? A working suite of tools, like those we were repeatedly assured would be live at release, would be fantastic. Good content in the mags- why they even call them online mags now, I have no idea, since they aren't even going to compile them anymore.

At an absolute minimum, I would need a functional Character Builder that supports house rules enough for a player in my game to actually use it (and how on earth a stripped-down version with even less HR support than the original version had allows anyone to make a real character for a real campaign, I'll never get) and a Monster Builder that wasn't completely broken. However, although I might re-up given those two tools, I don't feel that the price of the sub is justified without, you know, a lot of what we were originally told DDI would be. So to re-up and not feel vaguely, irrationally ripped off by doing so, I'd need to see some good Dungeon and Dragon content as well.

 

[the Jester]

Initially, I noticed that people were commenting on how they hated the CB change, and I wondered if this was just a luxury that we had grown so fond of that we felt hobbled without it. But, it seems to be more a value of product issue.

I'll speak to this really quickly. The issue is one of expectations- and reasonable ones, at that.

WotC raised the expectations of would-be subscribers very high prior to 4e's release. They failed to deliver on a whole lot of their ambitions. Now, some people would argue that was because they had unrealistic goals, but that doesn't matter a dingo's kidneys to me, the customer. When a vendor sells me something, they need to deliver what was advertised, or I will be disappointed.

But the thing is, they did provide a couple of good tools (or at least "good enough") and some cool content. Hurray, we feel like we're making progress towards all the stuff WotC said they would have ready a couple of years ago!

And then they yank support for the cool tools and replace them with broken crap, stop updating stuff while dancing right on the edge of dishonesty in dealing with their customers, replace decent or good maps with crap tiles, reduced the number of articles we get and the denseness of their content, etc. In other words, instead of the value of my DDI sub growing, I see it continuously dwindling, month by month.

The new CB? Worse than the old in about a zillion ways.

The new MB? As far as I can tell despite repeated requests for information, it's on the same schedule as the character visualizer.

The Compendium? No longer complete, and its completeness no longer seems to be a major priority.

The magazines? Now largely crap content, lots of preview and playtest material nobody should have to pay for, no real adventures, no real support for anything above 10th level.

So to me, it's more about the value I'm receiving relative to a couple of months ago than anything else. If DDI had been in this kind of shape before I subbed, I wouldn't have bothered in the first place. It's sad that it is worth so much less now than it was a year or two ago.

 

[Solvarn]

While reading this thread on the gap between book sales and DDI subscriptions, and more specifically about people who used to subscribe, have or had the downloaded character builder, and let their subscription lapse, I began to wonder on what drove people away.


So, if you were, but no longer are a subscriber to DDI...

• What was the turning point where you decided to cancel your subscription or let it lapse? Was it an economic issue, content issue?
• And, what other issues have continued to influence your ongoing purchase of D&D material?
• Did a ruling anger you?
• Do you suffer from errata fatigue?

What would WotC need to do to get you back?

There are a few other threads like this, but they all degenerated into flame wars and became unhelpful. So I am bringing this up again in the hopes that we can start off, and remain, civil. I am looking for enlightenment, not combat.

A quality, well supported product that works well at a reasonable price. I don't know that I will use the online table, my friends and I like to play at a table. If they don't support that option still I don't know how much money they will get from me.

 

[Solvarn]

I'll speak to this really quickly. The issue is one of expectations- and reasonable ones, at that.

WotC raised the expectations of would-be subscribers very high prior to 4e's release. They failed to deliver on a whole lot of their ambitions. Now, some people would argue that was because they had unrealistic goals, but that doesn't matter a dingo's kidneys to me, the customer. When a vendor sells me something, they need to deliver what was advertised, or I will be disappointed.

But the thing is, they did provide a couple of good tools (or at least "good enough") and some cool content. Hurray, we feel like we're making progress towards all the stuff WotC said they would have ready a couple of years ago!

And then they yank support for the cool tools and replace them with broken crap, stop updating stuff while dancing right on the edge of dishonesty in dealing with their customers, replace decent or good maps with crap tiles, reduced the number of articles we get and the denseness of their content, etc. In other words, instead of the value of my DDI sub growing, I see it continuously dwindling, month by month.

The new CB? Worse than the old in about a zillion ways.

The new MB? As far as I can tell despite repeated requests for information, it's on the same schedule as the character visualizer.

The Compendium? No longer complete, and its completeness no longer seems to be a major priority.

The magazines? Now largely crap content, lots of preview and playtest material nobody should have to pay for, no real adventures, no real support for anything above 10th level.

So to me, it's more about the value I'm receiving relative to a couple of months ago than anything else. If DDI had been in this kind of shape before I subbed, I wouldn't have bothered in the first place. It's sad that it is worth so much less now than it was a year or two ago.

That's the thing right there. The kind of content delivered lately is what I'd expect from a website, not a subscription service.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

and doesn't let me mix and match Essentials and Dark Sun and standard characters.

Are you trying to say that you cant make an Essentials or Pre-Essentials character for Dark Sun?

 

[Piratecat]

Are you trying to say that you cant make an Essentials or Pre-Essentials character for Dark Sun?

Other way around. I'd love to use some rules like the Dark Sun themes (or whatever the character templates are called - I'm blanking on the proper name) in my home campaign, but I believe those don't work unless you set up the character as a Dark Sun character.

The CB is getting better, though, I'll give it that. It's great to see them bug-fixing.

 

[Obryn]

For me, the value of a DDI subscription depends on a few things:

- the completeness of the Compendium (all books included, all rules included.)
- the ability of the character builder to create and track the characters used in my game
- the usefulness of the monster builder for adjusting monster stats
- regular, interesting articles in Dragon/Dungeon that are compiled monthly

Yup. Same here, pretty much. I'll add, "Ability to quickly export these things to a format that Masterplan can kinda read."

I'll also agree that the value of DDI has actually decreased over the past 6 months or so rather than increased, which is I think a good capsule summary of why I've stopped giving WotC my subscription money - at least for now.

I don't hold grudges. They can win me back to DDI, and my demands aren't even that extreme, IMO. Give me Dungeon and Dragon content somewhere approaching the articles from the early issues, give me working tools with stuff I need, bring back compiled issues, and I will come back. I just want to see it first, because my faith in WotC's commitment to and ability to deliver valuable online tools and content is basically gone.

And yeah, I know it's silly, but the whole "compiled issue" thing is, to me, the most ridiculous part. It's not tough to patch together a PDF, and "not everyone uses it" is hardly a reason to discontinue them. It's asinine.

-O