Why didn't they make D&D more adult?

[Empath Negative]

Going back to my frustration and rage and boundless fury concerning the Spirit Shaman class...

Stop and think of how awesomesaucemly they could've fleshed this character class out. It's the same with a lot of the more iconic aspects of D&D.

Why is it just about every wizard is a variation of this guy:

They don't bother to even start to get "iconic" until you get things like the Dread Necro, Warmage, Beguiler and so forth... and then they just get weird.

What WOULD be an awesome Enchanter chassis... finds traps? GTFO homeslice.


Some of the variants address this to some extent, such as the specialist wizard enchanter variant that gives you "social skills" in exchange for feats and a cohort, etc etc.


For example, take above Spirit Shaman. Imagine how badass it would be at level 16 to have a permanent "Foresight" effect... as cast by the "Spirit Guide" on the Shaman. The Shaman wouldn't get the great mechanical benefit but it would get an amazing roleplaying hook, with the DM periodically giving the Shaman useful info just out of the blue.... "Your Spirit Shaman conveys to you that it may be unwise to pull that leevar".

 

[delericho]

I'm missing something. How would that make D&D more adult?

I mean, I can certainly see arguments for more interesting "specialist" wizards - and I felt that the Warmage, Beguiler and Dread Necromancer were a very interesting step in that direction (albeit not a perfect step in that direction). And, indeed, I think the decision to allow the generalist Wizard to eventually access all arcane spells was probably a mistake - adopting a model closer to the Psion (where each discipline has some signature powers that only specialists could access) might well be a good thing.

(Conversely, the game could simply declare that a "specialist wizard" was just one who happened to learn more spells of one particular school than another. That way, if you want an Enchanter... just learn lots of enchantments. If you want a "Cold Mage", or a "Rage Mage", or whatever, the game handles that as well... just play a Wizard and pick spells accordingly.)

But none of this really has much to do with being 'adult'. In all honesty, I think the game hits about the right tone - aim for mid to late teens, provide little bits of more mature material in supplements ("Book of Vile Darkness", "Heroes of Horror", and the "Fiendish Codices"), and let groups set their own maturity level.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'm seconding [MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION]'s confusion between your post and any interpretation I can think of regarding your title.

But on the subject of your post, I do agree that the D&D published works portrayed certian stereotypes early in D&D editions, and in my limited observation, have expanded further in options for builds as the editions developed. 3.5 Core reflected much of those stereotypes, and then additional sourcebooks increased options more and more so by the time they finished publishing 3.5 material for 4e, a player really had mechanical options for most flavorful ideas he or she could consider. One of the reasons I'm so into 3rd edition is the variety of options.

I played a Gnome Wizard once, to try to work the stereotype. It was fun in it's own way, but I've had much more fun with more creative builds.

a Character is limited only by the imagination of the player, the permission of the DM, and the mechanics they choose to operate within.

 

[HoboGod]

I often have that gripe as well. While yes, WotC provides a few good articles of how to run an Evil campaign, the most "mature content warning" of any D&D game, it doesn't have anything for a grungy noir campaign or any crime drama campaign.

However, this isn't their fault. The reason D&D doesn't lend itself well to adult content is because adult fiction lends itself best to the realism genre. D&D, being rooted in the fantasy genre, makes realism next to impossible. Hunting a known serial killer whose victims have all been white females gets a bit silly when you find out that the killer is a dragon or a ghost. It's possible to weed out the fantasy: reword magic to reflect real world equivalencies like explosives, technology, and drugs, throw out monstrous enemies, build an endless number of humanoid NPCs, and change item lists to reflect things of this century, but that's not D&D anymore. D&D is fantasy and fantasy rarely gets more adult than Horror. You have to accept that playing this game, like all fantasy, horror, and science fiction, is childish. It's up to you to decide if "childish" is a bad thing. It's up to you to decide if adult themes can find place in a childish medium.

 

[xigbar]

The reason the more recent iterations weren't made with a more adult state of mind is because the previous editions weren't. They targeted past buyers, who bought their first edition most likely as children, and new buyers would likely also be around that age group. As for the original d&d, couldn't tell you, but I imagine that the original fan base started the need for subsequent generations to appeal to a younger state of mind.

 

[Sekhmet]

The larger your target audience, the better a chance you'll have at selling well.
Targeting teenagers with largely disposable income is one of the primary methods of moving product off shelves.

 

[bloodtide]

1)If your talking about ''Adult'' as in ''Mature'' it's simply enough. As it's a game that lots of kids play, WotC(and TSR before them) have it in there best interest to keep everything 'lite' and 'kid friendly'. Simply put, a company wants to keep parents happy so kids can buy and play their games.

And the kids aside, ''Mature'' topics are sure to automatically offend someone. So a company will try to avoid that.

2)If your talking ''Adult'' as in ''Complicated'' it's a bit more complex. Most people are average, so if you make things too complicated, a lot of people won't understand it. And this will cause a loss of customers. On one will buy a book they can't understand. Now granted some players can understand complicated things, but a typical company suit guy will loose sleep at night thinking someone won't understand and buy the book. And you enter the classic water down effect: You simply make the game 'easy' enough for everyone, then everyone can play the game.(as always you force the better people to lower themselves to the average and below people)

 

[trancejeremy]

Blame the Blumes, apparently.

I think this is actually a big reason Pathfinder has done so well - they treat their players like they are adults, not children. Like a cable drama vs most over the air network dramas.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[Dandu]

Blame the Blumes, apparently.

I think this is actually a big reason Pathfinder has done so well - they treat their players like they are adults, not children. Like a cable drama vs most over the air network dramas.

Can you give me examples? I'm more familiar with Pathfinder banning people who point out problems with their product.