D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Willie the Duck]

Dont-matter is the opposite to matter.

That's what I was taught back at Wossamotta U.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, the gnome incorporates enough stuff like forest spirits and the like that there’s plenty to work with.

That's where they have gone with it, but that's mire of a D&D-ism than folkloric. Smart move, though.

 

[Parmandur]

the subject is light, text is dense and built for a different time which is to say it is a good story but a chore to read it took me weeks to read.

I am a very fast reader, and Tolkien isn't really that big a barrier. The Two Towers was a challenge in Middle School, it got a bit heavy, but the Hobbit is a light weekend jaunt.

 

[Mind of tempest]

That's where they have gone with it, but that's mire of a D&D-ism than folkloric. Smart move, though.

I have lost the thread who are you answering to?

I am a very fast reader, and Tolkien isn't really that big a barrier. The Two Towers was a challenge in Middle School, it got a bit heavy, but the Hobbit is a light weekend jaunt.

clearly, you all must be made of sterner stuff than I.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah, this is pointless.

Are you seriously claiming that gnomes have significant traction in the D&D hobby? And that gnomes are so popular that they are widely known in other media? Really?

They are known in other media. Whether they are "widely known" is subjective to a degree. They aren't as popular as The Scarlet Witch, but they are more widely known than Mindflayers were until Stranger Things started putting Mindflayers into their show.

Significant traction in DnD? What do you mean by "significant"? Equal to elves, dwarves and halflings? Obviously not. Equal to hags? Sure. Gnomes have about as much traction in DnD as hags. People know about them, they appear in various games in various ways. Or maybe you would prefer Nagas? About the same difference.

Ok, it comes down to this. Never in the history of the game have gnomes been popular. At best, they're an after thought if even that. They never play a significant role in anything. They just kind of sit there, taking up space.

Other than the Gnome Effect, if you pulled gnomes out of the PHB, most people wouldn't even notice. It would have pretty much zero impact on most campaign settings. Even in settings which do strongly feature gnomes, like Dragonlance, if you pulled gnomes out of Krynn, it would make ... zero difference.

Sure, pull dwarves out of "most" settings and it will have zero impact. They aren't neccessary for anything in Eberron, pretty sure they just sit in their mountains in greyhawk, they are pretty easy to remove if you wanted to. Same with halflings and sea elves and a dozen other races.

But I'm not arguing any of that, so congrats on arguing a point I'm not?

Look, I get that you seem to think gnomes are this widely beloved concept where everyone is just chomping at the bit to play them, but, I really don't see the evidence for it. True, there is one, and only one, gnome in the entire Candlekeep mysteries module. There was none in Ghosts of Saltmarsh that I recall (although I haven't read the adventures in a while, so, it could just be me forgetting). Curse of Strahd doesn't have any gnomes. Were there any in Hoard of the Dragon Queen? In fact, in any of the, what, ten major module releases for 5e (10? 13? I forget), have gnomes featured in any significant way, ever?

I don't know, I don't play the modules. I don't care what the modules say, because they don't affect me in the slightest.

Also, you don't get what I think at all, since you are thrusting upon me ideas and words I've never said. Obviously there are a lot of people who don't like or care about gnomes. They may not be "widely" beloved.

But they are beloved by SOME people, and they matter to SOME people, and I've never argued otherwise, I've just argued a very simple point. If you hate them because "they can only be one thing" then you are wrong. They can be other things. They aren't stuck in a stereotype any more than any other race. And the stereotype people have for them isn't even presented in the game.

It's not bias to note that gnomes are barely present in the game. Barely played by players, barely feature in any of the adventures or supplements. How is this bias?

Because your bias was about literature, not about adventures or supplements.

Do you think I'm not going to notice that we've gone from "Give me literature featuring gnomes" to "But that literature doesn't count" to "But they never show up in a significant way in an adventure or supplement"?

So, you do admit that they show up in literature. Modern literature to be sure, but still literature. You acknowledge that a 600 page book devoted solely to a gnome character and adventures dealing primarily with a gnome society is a novel, and that being e-published is still being published. Because you've ceded all that ground, and fallen back to a completely different topic. One I've never talked to you about, and have no interest in discussing with you.

Gnomes haven't shown up in a major way in a DnD adventure. So what? That means none of us are allowed to point out that there are people who enjoy them, use them, and want to see their roles expanded? That we shouldn't push back against the stereotypes by pointing out that they don't need to be stereotypes? I don't need gnomes to be popular. I haven't cared about being popular ever since I decided I liked Dungeons and Dragons. But if the only reason people dislike gnomes is that they've never seen a good gnome character portrayed... then I'm going to step up and point out that they do exist, people are using them, and they are using them in interesting ways.

 

[Chaosmancer]

*I succeeded on this for every race except human, given the "gnome/halfling" combo, because I couldn't come up with a clear, distinct, interesting, and most importantly NOT RACIST fourth option for humans. After giving it a fair shake and still coming up empty, I settled for humans having only three "lineages" rather than four, because I'd much rather have them be a little weird mechanically than perpetuate racist stereotypes. That left me with standard, Dual-Blooded (e.g. half-elf, half-orc, half-dwarf, etc.), and SPACE(!) (e.g. slan, Solarians, potentially Vulcans, etc.)

I have moved towards making humans the most well known for Aasimar, tieflings and Genasi. Basically, humans are mutable, and very easily are born affected by outer planar magic. Since I've removed about a metric ton of elves, and left them at three, this works for my games.

 

[Vaalingrade]

love is not deserved, stealable, earnable or takeable in any fashion its nature is to be given and only given and I pity any poor fool who would give it to me as I can neither return it nor would I be comparable, better to hurl it into a fire or a black hole than try to give it so something that has fallen as far as me.

Ten thousand teenagers just spontaneously said 'I can change them' and have no idea why.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Ten thousand teenagers just spontaneously said 'I can change them' and have no idea why.

I would wish them luck I know of nothing that can change the nature of this man.

any idea on what could be done to make gnomes feel more usable in settings?

 

[Parmandur]

I have lost the thread who are you answering to?

clearly, you all must be made of sterner stuff than I.

The person I quoted.

It's pleasure reading, so I wouldn't say it takes much sterness.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The person I quoted.

It's pleasure reading, so I wouldn't say it takes much sterness.

there is no quote on my end?

as I said I found it rather difficult to read.