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D&D 5E Why do you use Floating ASI's (other than power gaming)? [+]


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Faolyn

Hero
That's not how it works. I asked for clarification, didn't receive it.

I'm not telling anybody what they are saying, I don't make assumptions and put words in people's mouths by representing what they say, habitually.
Yes, you really, really do.

Nope, you may believe it, I don't refuse to accept you have an opinion.
Except that you do, because you refuse to accept that people use floating ASIs for creative reasons.

Nope, I asked for clarification, didn't get it.
You got it. You just didn’t believe it, because you believe people only use floating ASIs to get a +3, which you believe isn’t “needed.”

Well you refused to answer the question. While harassing me over and over...
Since I had never made the claim in the first place (that it was needed), and I told you that I hadn’t. But you continued to insist that I had.

Missed anything?
Yes. Questions from most of my other posts. Such as, do you believe people are lying when they say they use floating ASIs for creative reasons?
 

Scribe

Hero
Except that you do, because you refuse to accept that people use floating ASIs for creative reasons
No, I accept they may believe that.

You got it. You just didn’t believe it, because you believe people only use floating ASIs to get a +3, which you believe isn’t “needed.
No, I don't believe they only use it to get a +3. To confirm however, +3 is not needed.

Such as, do you believe people are lying when they say they use floating ASIs for creative reasons?
No, they certainly may believe that is the case.
 

Faolyn

Hero
No, I accept they may believe that.


No, I don't believe they only use it to get a +3. To confirm however, +3 is not needed.


No, they certainly may believe that is the case.
So you believe that they're actually just wrong. All these people are just fooling themselves when they think they're being creative. But you, you know what they're really doing it for. You know all these people better than they know themselves.

Wow. Just wow.

So tell us, O wise one, what they are actually doing it for.
 

Scribe

Hero
All these people are just fooling themselves when they think they're being creative.
Not at all, of course they are being creative, if they are creating a concept, history, background, motivations, and so on.

That would be a creative endeavor.
 

Faolyn

Hero
Not at all, of course they are being creative, if they are creating a concept, history, background, motivations, and so on.

That would be a creative endeavor.
So then do tell us what you meant by "No, I accept they may believe that." and "No, they certainly may believe that is the case."

Because what you are actually saying is "They're lying to themselves. But I know what they're really doing when they have a floating +2."
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/They)
Oh, I read it and you're still reading in a contradiction that doesn't exist.
Then you’re misunderstanding my comment. Having a unified proficiency bonus progression, and having target numbers for level appropriate challenges increase to keep pace with that progression (as 5e does) absolutely contradicts the originally stated intent to make no assumptions about accuracy increasing with level so that characters’ accuracy doesn’t have to increase at a fixed rate.
 

Scribe

Hero
So then do tell us what you meant by "No, I accept they may believe that." and "No, they certainly may believe that is the case."
What it says on the tin?

I accept that one may believe floating ASI allows them to be creative.

You ironically telling me what I meant, remains on brand.
 





Faolyn

Hero
That one believes something to be true.

It's quite literally that.
No. It doesn't literally mean that. Because then you would have written, "OK, I can see why you would say that, although I don't believe that myself" or words to that affect.

Instead, you said "I accept that you believe" which is very much saying "you're lying to yourself, but I'll let you continue to believe you're right."

Especially when you couple it with only using that phrase with people who talk about being creative, but say someone who "admits" to wanting the bonus is expressing "refreshing honesty."

Especially when you couple it with an image that says "restrictions breed creativity" and said you didn't understand how removing restrictions allowed for creativity. BookTenTiger replied "Maybe... You don't need to understand? You just need to accept that for some people, removing the restriction promotes creativity." And you responded with "Well...no. lol"

You prefer restrictions. You refuse to accept other people don't. You laugh at the ones who don't. So excuse me when I don't believe what you're saying here.

And before you claim you were saying that nobody had explained to you how to be creative with floating ASIs, I had, multiple times. So had other people.
 




MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I said that.

In 4e, you need a 18 primary IF you play past level 10.
The same may be true in 5e for 16s.
It is possible to have a character thrive in paragon without maxed scores. I once had a paladin that was more of a controller/healer that didn't fight much on her own. I ended up dead to a key athletics roll that I couldn't make... But it was fun while it lasted and it was memorable.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Have we seen an answer given yet that did not involve getting a +3 modifier in the primary stat of the PC's class? (Other than @Arilyn's brownie whose class is yet to be defined)
I almost never start with a +3. I use floating ASIs.

Because it makes it easier to just build and play effective MAD characters like my highly intelligent Cobalt Soul Monk/Inquisitive Rogue, or my athlete Rogue Revolutionary (does he “need” decent Str and Cha and Wis? Prolly not, but he’s more fun for having those) or a wise Paladin or my friend’s Bard/Cleric, or my other friend’s Bard/Fighter Sage that started life as a 4e Warlord with higher Int than Str.

They can all be built with fixed ASI, but it’s simpler and less annoying and more fun to build them with the ability to just put the points wherever I want.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
There are people who believe Floating ASI allows them to be creative. Accepted.
I've come into this at risk of not having sufficient background, but I have recently read this kind of framing from various posters and it conveys to me something like this -

You have the belief that you are being creative, but that is not a justified, true belief. You have fooled yourself into believing something that is false. Furthermore, I know that it is false, implying that I am superior morally or intellectually.

That can feel very undermining, because I am being told that something I believe to be true is not true, and by the way I also don't possess a virtue (creativity) that I hoped to possess (in at least some measure.) In part, I think this position is provoked by a claim to subjective experience. If you don't share that experience, it might feel unfair that someone in a thread can simply claim to have it with no burden for evidence.

One line of argument I've recently been entertaining is leveraging the idea of possible worlds and pragmatism. It's easy to agree that there is a possible world in which it is true that you are being creative in the way you claim you are. What are the consequences? Do we find those consequences beneficial? What about the other possible world? Are the consequences in that world beneficial?
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
It is possible to have a character thrive in paragon without maxed scores. I once had a paladin that was more of a controller/healer that didn't fight much on her own. I ended up dead to a key athletics roll that I couldn't make... But it was fun while it lasted and it was memorable.
Oh I didn't say you had to run maxed scores.

I said that in 4e, if you didn't follow the threadmill, combats would get very grindy. The monsters wouldn't suddenly kill you. It would just take forever to finish an encounter with unoptimized PCs..

Something similar happens in 5e. The threadmill is just slower. The game assumes some sort of powergaming to prevent slog. If you may a 15 primary character and pickup flavor feats and boost tertiary scores, you are adding to the slog in combat. If many people in you party do this, your combats will be very long. Longer than the designers intended.
 

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