D&D 5E Why does 5E SUCK?

[Pickles III]

Okay... stabilize two fallen comrades in the same round... My point is that the Rogue's bonus action is limited to certain actions while the fighter's isn't.

Edit: and even though we're discussing non-combat let's not forget it can be used in combat as an extra attack as well...

Stablilize two comrades out of combat?

It is unquestionably good in combat - I am struggling to see it being very good out.

Mind you I think cunning action is fantastic & my favourite bit of 5e design, elegantly capturing tumble, sneakiness & nimbleness & it's a great reason to play a rogue in or out of combat.

 

[Imaro]

Stablilize two comrades out of combat?

It is unquestionably good in combat - I am struggling to see it being very good out.

Mind you I think cunning action is fantastic & my favourite bit of 5e design, elegantly capturing tumble, sneakiness & nimbleness & it's a great reason to play a rogue in or out of combat.

Why do people discount the fact that you can get hurt outside of combat in the exploration pillar??

 

[Pickles III]

Because honestly I never see it happen. Odd bits of damage yes, not massive HP loss to multiple characters.

There was this one time with a 3e rogue who was trying to open a trapped object & we healed him up each time he failed - the days of wands of CLW, so very 3e.

 

[Ashkelon]

Can anyone give me an actual example of why you would want a fighter in the party for an exploration related task as opposed to any other class?

Sure, fighters get action surge, but in most exploration related tasks you aren't using rounds anyway. It almost never matters that you can take an extra action outside of combat. Aside from that, using action surge outside of combat means you can't use it in combat and if you just used it in combat, you can't use it outside of combat until you rest.

Sure fighters have indomitable. But saving throws are primarily related to combat. Using indomitable outside of combat is one less use in combat. It can help against traps, if the fighter is the one triggering them, and if the rest of the party has failed to notice/disable the trap. But most traps in D&D aren't worth spending one of your uses of indomitable on.

Sure fighters get more feats. But even then, most people take combat feats before everything else. I don't think I've seen a 5e fighter take a non-combat feat, ever. But even then, most non combat feats in 5e don't actually do all that much for the fighter.

I'd really like to see a solid example of what the fighter can uniquely bring to non combat situations. The paladin aura of +saves absolutely destroys indomitable outside of combat. The barbarian gets advantage on Dex saves which is also better than indomitable outside of combat. All the other classes have some combination of spells, rituals, expertise, more trained skills, or class features that contribute a lot outside of combat. So I'll ask again, what is it that a fighter brings to a non combat scenario that other classes can't bring equally well, if not better.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The paladin aura of +saves absolutely destroys indomitable outside of combat. The barbarian gets advantage on Dex saves which is also better than indomitable outside of combat.

No it isn't. Even against Dex saves it is merely on par, if there is no other source of advantage like inspiration or Lucky. And I've seen some really nasty Con save poisons out there, though I don't trend to use traps myself.

As for the paladin, his aura makes up for non-proficiency but not for indomitable. Obviously of course the aura helps others if the paladin is close enough, which is super nice in many situations like opening a lock. It does expose the paladin to risk though.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Why do people discount the fact that you can get hurt outside of combat in the exploration pillar??

Because it seems a lot of people discount the exploration pillar altogether (along with interaction). All about the Pentiums...er...combat baby!

 

[Ashkelon]

No it isn't. Even against Dex saves it is merely on par, if there is no other source of advantage like inspiration or Lucky. And I've seen some really nasty Con save poisons out there, though I don't trend to use traps myself.

As for the paladin, his aura makes up for non-proficiency but not for indomitable.

The paladin aura affects the whole party though, making the rogues saves better, which is good if the rogue is the one activating/deactivating the traps. It also requires no resources to use. The barbarian has advantage to all Dex saves, without requiring resources. In my mind that is better than a 3/day reroll that you would probably rather save for dominate or fear effects in combat.

 

[Imaro]

Sure, fighters get action surge, but in most exploration related tasks you aren't using rounds anyway. It almost never matters that you can take an extra action outside of combat. Aside from that, using action surge outside of combat means you can't use it in combat and if you just used it in combat, you can't use it outside of combat until you rest.

Say what now? So when your characters need to climb a 60ft cliff... what unit of time do you use, I use rounds... or if they are swimming across a 90 ft wide river... what unit of time do you use? Disarming a trap, chasing someone or being chased?

 

[Imaro]

The barbarian has advantage to all Dex saves, without requiring resources. In my mind that is better than a 3/day reroll that you would probably rather save for dominate or fear effects in combat.

But it's only Dex saves... nothing else. The fighter can reroll any save... In other words I don't think you can claim one is objectively better than the other.

 

[Ashkelon]

Say what now? So when you're characters need to climb a 60ft cliff... what unit of time do you use, I use rounds... or if they are swimming across a 90 ft wide river... what unit of time do you use? Disarming a trap, chasing someone or being chased?

Why measure it in rounds? Outside of combat there is no need. Its not like you have to make a skill check every 6 seconds. Usually for non combat situations the game moves at the speed of plot. Also, even if those situations were measured in rounds, how would a single extra round matter outside of combat?

Woohoo, the fighter gets to the top of the cliff 6 seconds faster than anyone else (well, anyone who doesn't bother wasting a spell slot or have some other ability like flight). Disarming traps...as a Strength based fighter, really? Being chased is technically a combat situation.

So again, I will ask, where is the fighter more capable outside of combat than any other class. You keep avoiding answering the question?