D&D 5E "Why don't you just shoot it?"

[Seramus]

I've known brilliant people who can stay calm, and brilliant people who lose their cool over unimportant things. Wisdom is probably the attribute that reminds you to remain calm, and tells you when someone is trying to distract you with their insults (Insight). But even that is not guaranteed, since it's completely subjective.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Did you insult me?

Dude, we've been lightly insulting each other off and on. I found it amusing when you did those jabs at me. That you didn't notice it does undermine your point about wisdom, though.

Riiiiight. Resisting domination is not about willpower. Got it.

You know, at this point (actually well before this point) you're arguing in bad faith and I'm done with you.

The last thing I'll say is look at the chart on page 237 of the DMG

So quoting the actual text of the rules is arguing in bad faith.

I am amused that you just now noticed that chart, yet missed the one on 238 that makes the point far better. But I'll concede the point.

And, really, for arguing in bad faith, which of us is it that can't make up their mind on if they ignored commenting about IQ, and which of us is it that linked a source that directly contradicted their point?

 

[Leatherhead]

A lot of people are going on about dragons being vulnerable to taunting and whatnot.

Lets sidestep this argument completely.

There is one of my favorite recent mooks:



The entire gimmick of this npc is, well, printed out in that flavor text above: It floats above melee combat and shoots down with impunity. The trade off being: It's just floating in the air, with an incredibly obvious weak point, no cover, and the potential for disastrous things happening to the NPC should anyone in the party decide to put two and two together.

As for the OP:
Sometimes, fights aren't supposed to be easy, or even in your favor. (When they start, at least) You should always be looking for the "non-attack option" that turns the tide of battle. However, you can be thankful that Javelins are the "worst case" weapon for non-dex melee characters, which is actually comparatively decent when contrasted with the problems facing melee specialists in previous editions. Though, I would love to see the Trident get buffed into a better choice to compensate for the fact it's supposed to be better than a Spear.

 

[The Old Crow]

I think we need a thrown weapon with a decent short range, and the ability to draw as many as you can throw on your turn.

Atlatl with the ammo property? Or just let any weapon be drawn as part of the attack that uses it, so a full complement of attacks can be made with thrown weapons.

Also maybe a general bonus to ranges based off STR score. I think being stronger should let you throw farther, which would help with avoiding Disavantage for not being a DEX based character using a DEX based ranged weapon.

 

[jasper]

Your major options are:

1) do nothing
2) use ranged weapons
3) use ranged magic

What the heck else do you want?

A magic missile machine gun that looks like an uzi does 20d4 per round. It also needs to be +3 silvered, and what ever heck it needs to be so I don't do reduced damage. It also must be keep my soda/beer chilled to no less that 35 degrees. And I only take damage when I want to. That is right I want to just Captain Kirk through all adventures.

 

[billd91]

I planted my flag on the hill of "there wasn't any creativity in how you tried to distract the dragon." So far... I'm seeing there was no creativity in how you tried to distract the dragon, and you were too reliant on game mechanics to aid you in a contest of wills, where dragons normally have the advantage.

Hmmm... to me it looks more like you planted your flag on the hill of "I'm going to be a dick about someone else's experiences and style of play".

 

[Tony Vargas]

A big part of D&D is overcoming adversity. You will not always be in your comfort zone or your effectiveness zone, yet you still need to be able to respond. If you've ever played a caster who's low on slots with an unknown number of encounters still ahead before you can get a long rest, you know that adaptability and creativity are important when you are thrust into a situation where your go-to plan isn't available.

Well, in 5e, even once you're out of slots you have at-will cantrips. And, if you're a prepped caster you go-to plan can be different each day. OTOH, if you're a Champion fighter, you go-to plan was prettymuch picked at first level from a list of combat styles. If you picked 'Archery,' congratulations. ;P

Bows are not the only ranged weapons.

Just the best, yeah.

There are a number of thrown weapons which have the advantage of being one-handed.

And the disadvantage of shorter range, which may even put them in the same boat as melee, some of the time....

But, if you're primarily ranged (DEX) you can use a finesse weapon, while if you're primarily melee (STR) you can use a thrown weapons. So there is that. In both cases, they're not the best weapons evar. The rapier is the best finesse weapon and it's roughly equivalent to the longsword, which is a good 1-handed weapon, but not the 'best' melee weapon. Arguably the gap between the rapier and the better non-finesse melee weapons is narrower than that between thrown weapons like javelins and the best ranged weapons.

YES, you are not nearly as good as a dedicated archer. YES, that's an intentional part of the system. You are not ineffective, and you also can think about how to get around the problem.

With feats and optimal builds a dedicated archer is among the best DPR options in 5e, thanks in part to the sharpshooter feat. A similar feat puts Two-handed weapon users (STR) in the same league. When the STR build is forced into fighting at range, even with all his cool feats, he can expect a significant drop in effectiveness as he tosses whatever secondary weapons he has for the occasion. When the DEX build is forced into fighting in melee, he just keeps shooting, because there's no AoO for doing so in 5e, and his feats mean no disadvantage, either.

IDK if that's an intentional part of the system, or an oversight stemming from the fact that feats are optional...

Or just let any weapon be drawn as part of the attack that uses it, so a full complement of attacks can be made with thrown weapons.

Interpret object interaction a little liberally - I'm interacting with my bandoleer of throwing knives this round.

Also maybe a general bonus to ranges based off STR score. I think being stronger should let you throw farther, which would help with avoiding Disavantage for not being a DEX based character using a DEX based ranged weapon.

Not a bad idea. Tad persnickety for the stereotypical player type the 'simple fighter' was made for.

 

[Satyrn]

. . . Did I just skim through a debate on how dragons will react when insulted?

As though there's any chance that all DMs will run dragons the same, certain way? That seems weird.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hmmm... to me it looks more like you planted your flag on the hill of "I'm going to be a dick about someone else's experiences and style of play".

I was going to do another long reply, but I think that sums it up well enough.

Thank you for cutting through the noise with a succinct formulation.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Hmmm... to me it looks more like you planted your flag on the hill of "I'm going to be a dick about someone else's experiences and style of play".

Eh. Probably does. I'll admit that after the Gluteus Maximus comment he made, I made it a point to stop treating him with kid gloves and start making it clear I actually do have some idea what I'm talking about when it comes to distraction.

This is also why it is you shouldn't use personal experiences to support statements in a topic like this. It leaves those who disagree with you the options of either tearing into your playstyle or outright ignoring you said anything at all. I did try to be nice at first, and quickly dropped that when all I got was someone deciding to act like a dick in their reply when they could have said the same thing without that particular comment.

Plus, I note again that he has taken an opportunity to avoid giving any detail or answering any questions. That tells me all I need to know.

. . . Did I just skim through a debate on how dragons will react when insulted?

As though there's any chance that all DMs will run dragons the same, certain way? That seems weird.

Oh, just wait. Next week, we're going to discussing the psychology of mindflayers and how it influences their tea preferences.