Why I don't play D&D anymore

[marune]

I started with D&D under 2E (+- '93) and I was and I'm still most of the time the DM of my different groups. I switched to 3E and 3.5E as soon as they were released.

At first, I really loved these new editions; I was even aggressive against those "old skool" gamers who didn't want to hear about an elven wizard/paladin.

So, what killed it for me? It turns around the idea of Balance... Of course I want all the classes build with the idea that they should all give the players a way to shine in the party. However what I got is a Balance calculated on the performance in combat of each class in a game where there are 4 encounters / day**.

That doesn't support the kind of campaign* I want to do with the D&D game. Don't think I hate dungeon crawls. I do like them, from times to times, not in every adventure! I also want to run some "mystery solving", some "wilderness trek", some "political diplomacy" or some "overland skirmishes" and I think D&D should support all of them because they are the typical things we imagine adventurers doing.

I'm curious to hear what you'll say about it...

* BTW, I run all my D&D campaigns in FR.
** If you need a proof, add a Psion in a 1 enc. / day campaign.

 

[Zimri]

my reply, and I am by no means an expert in any way, is that I believe you can assign a CR (challenge rating) to a diplomatic event (or series thereof), or to finding and putting together a string of clues or what not. I believe, and I could be wrong here feel free to correct me, characters get experience not merely for defeating foes in combat but also for "overcoming challenges" whether by spell and blade, or cunning and wit.

In short I believe the rules to do what you want are in the system. Just don't bring a straight up melee person to a battle of wits better suited for a diplomat, or a cunning linguist. Rogues, paladins, and monks have a place other than "melee support"

 

[Crothian]

Then run the game you want to run. I did a 2 year campaign with no dungeon crawls. I've done 8 encounters a day, one encounter a day, and lots of things that the basic rules assumes to not happen. I've had tenth level characters with no magical weapons, and second level characters with over 100k worth of stuff. Don't let the game prevent you from doing what you want to do.

 

[marune]

Zimri : my problem isn't to come with non-melee-fighting encounters, my problem is about the daily frequency of encounters hard wired in the rules.

Crothian : Of course I did try it, I've been doing it since the first days of 3E, but the numerous problems that arose because of that important assumption have made me sick of it. There are many other little things I dislike (one is the Wal-mart magic items that many here support) but I know that I can do something to avoid it in my games. However, not following the 4/day has some major effects that cannot be so easily avoided.

 

[Crothian]

Crothian : Of course I did try it, I've been doing it since the first days of 3E, but the numerous problems that arose because of that important assumption have made me sick of it. There is many other little things I dislike (like the Wal-mart spirit about magic items that many here support) but I know I do something to make it not happen in my games. However, not following the 4/day has some major effects.

Well, you tried and it didn't work. Go find a game that works for you. D&D isn't the only RPG out there and it will not work for everyone.

What major effects did you run across? I ask because I never had a problem with that area of the game.

 

[Graybeard]

In the campaign I run, there are sessions where no combat encounters take place. It is all role playing, clue gathering, etc. On average, there is a combat every other session or so. I give out XP for everything wether it is combat or not. I know the rules only have information for giving XP for combat but I like to reward my players for things other than straight combat. If they successfully bluff someone, engage in a diplomatic discussion, etc., they get XP.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Skeptic--it sounds like you might be better off with balance that is based on per-encounter rather than per-day. You can try Iron Heroes, which has a neat token system balanced per encounter. Another idea is to phase out the typical D&D casters for Warlocks and the like who can go at it all day as desired, or introduce reserve feats from Complete Arcane.

Frankly, I run my games with very few dungeon crawls and encounters per day and have little problem with the current ruleset (I wouldn't make the change I suggested in my game), but I know everyone has their own preferences.

 

[marune]

In my experience, the worst problems appear when you mix in the same party a class who is better in a < 4 enc. day (let's take an extreme, Psion) and a class who is better when there is > 4 enc. day (let's take the other extreme, Fighter).

Again, what I want is a good "each player's got the spot light over the night" balance which I must say is sucessfull with RAW if you play in a dungeon crawl (or let's say Dungeon adventures) mode.

 

[Zimri]

Zimri : my problem isn't to come with non-melee-fighting encounters, my problem is about the daily frequency of encounters hard wired in the rules.

My GMs over the past few years must have been doing something wrong, even when playing through official "modules" (if that term is still used) I don't think we ever had 4 encounters per day, except maybe during the "ring through the nose" that was "whispers of the vampires blade".

Besides if you read Order Of The Stick (written by Rich Burlew who also sometimes writes for WOTC) you know that there is and must always be one and only one random encounter between plot points no matter how far physically or chronologically or both that they are removed from one another 8)

 

[Felix]

but the numerous problems that arose because of that important assumption have made me sick of it.

The assumptions are there so that when DMs change the assumptions (and they should... I'd hate to have 4 equivalent CR encounters every flogging day), the DMs know how much harder they're making it on the PCs.

The assumptions arn't there for you to follow ex cathedra, but rather so you can inflict precicely the amount of pain and suffering on your players as you intend to.

(one is the Wal-mart magic items that many here support)

This is one of the possible side-effects of playing in such a magic-rich setting as Forgotten Realms, but its certainly not required by the rules set. Sure, the game assumes a certain level of magic items in the party, but if you just use that assumption as a starting point and reduce the loot the party has access to, you can more easily judge how much tougher the encounters you have for them are going to be.