Why is Online Gaming considered Second Class?

[Dedekind]

I think my VTT experience is better than average because most of the people I'm playing with are my longtime friends. As in, I get the "game night" experience without the physical reality of game night.

I've been pleased with MapTools in the broadest sense, but the learning curve can be pretty killer. I will move over to DDI VTT SU ASAP. SFATA*


* Dungeons & Dragons Insider, Virtual Table Top, Sight Unseen, As Soon As Possible, Sorry For All The Acronyms.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I play a face to face most Saturdays and that is the most fun gaming I have.

But I also run multiple games on Yahoogroups and have for ten or twelve years. Those games are different from face to face, move slower, but are still a good way to game. The plusses are more time for character interaction, more time to think about the adventure between posts and near total freedom on when and where you post. I typically post to Yahoogroups from 6-7 different computers in a given week, at different schools. That is nice

I do not do play by post, though I have in the past, as I find it too much work to get to the game, read posts, and then contribute. Replying to email is a lot easier.

Playing in real time just does not work for me. I usually cannot set aside blocks of time and the 15 hour time difference from the central US is a lot.

 

[Sunseeker]

Mostly, I dislike the lack of personal interaction. Oh, you can claim it's a social event, but really, it's just faces on a screen, or text on a board.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Put me in the group of, "VTT isn't good enough, yet." Otherwise, our face to face group would continue to play that way, and then supplement with online play. It's still too much like using MS Word, circa 1990. You can write documents with it, but it is often too much hassle for what you get, unless that is your only good option (e.g. repeat template letter).

Part of this is that we don't have any true 3rd generation VTT products yet. You know, the ones where it had all the features it could possibly need in version 2. So in version 3, they perfected the user interface and made it foolproof.

Another part is the same "translation" problem that early MMORPG and CRPG games had, compared to table top. Ideally, a VTT product would be for a game system written specifically to be played online, with a game master. Then the mechanical side of it would flow more naturally, and the social features would be pushed to the max. Many of the VTT products right now are really:

1. A way to do virtual table top where you take away the table and use the computer--and in fact sometimes well enough that people use it for that when they are all sitting around the same table.

2. A lot of social features (e.g. chat, voice, etc.) to let you use this while you aren't all sitting around the same table.

You'll note that #1 is not necessarily the best way to focus if you want to maximize mechanical play when people aren't sitting around the same table, but makes a lot of sense for transitional products.

For all that I write software, I'm not an early adopter. We are still in the early adopter period for VTT--albeit rapidly closing in on the 2nd generation products. Give it time.

 

[Reynard]

I literally just discovered Maptool. While I love face to face gaming, it looks like a great way to get the " old gang" that has since dispersed across the country back together.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I literally just discovered Maptool. While I love face to face gaming, it looks like a great way to get the " old gang" that has since dispersed across the country back together.

That is always a big plus to online gaming.

 

[Hussar]

I don't have any problems with VTT. I thought about it myself, but the problem I face right now is the learning curve since I don't have much time to devote to a game aside from my current Pathfinder game.

However, my concerns about flaking players or players who won't take the game seriously is something that I've noticed as a risk to play VTT. After all, if strangers sign on to your game, get bored, then the next thing they might do to have fun is have at your expense and at the expense of the other players. Of course, this is the risk in RL, but there is no fear of getting punched in the nose for being a jerk at the VTT.

If I didn't have a group to play with, I would definitely look into VTT.

Oh, a 1000 times this. My first online group, over the course of 2 or 3 years, went through nearly FIFTY players. ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH! We had a pretty solid core of 3 or 4 players but, the 5th and 6th seats flipped over almost weekly. The group ballooned up to 10 players a few times and then crashed back to the core 3 or 4.

I can totally understand where Kitsune is coming from with this.

Put me in the group of, "VTT isn't good enough, yet." Otherwise, our face to face group would continue to play that way, and then supplement with online play. It's still too much like using MS Word, circa 1990. You can write documents with it, but it is often too much hassle for what you get, unless that is your only good option (e.g. repeat template letter).

Part of this is that we don't have any true 3rd generation VTT products yet. You know, the ones where it had all the features it could possibly need in version 2. So in version 3, they perfected the user interface and made it foolproof.

Another part is the same "translation" problem that early MMORPG and CRPG games had, compared to table top. Ideally, a VTT product would be for a game system written specifically to be played online, with a game master. Then the mechanical side of it would flow more naturally, and the social features would be pushed to the max. Many of the VTT products right now are really:

1. A way to do virtual table top where you take away the table and use the computer--and in fact sometimes well enough that people use it for that when they are all sitting around the same table.

2. A lot of social features (e.g. chat, voice, etc.) to let you use this while you aren't all sitting around the same table.

You'll note that #1 is not necessarily the best way to focus if you want to maximize mechanical play when people aren't sitting around the same table, but makes a lot of sense for transitional products.

For all that I write software, I'm not an early adopter. We are still in the early adopter period for VTT--albeit rapidly closing in on the 2nd generation products. Give it time.

Now, for me, I don't want what you're calling a 3rd generation table. One that is more video game than tabletop game. For one, that sort of thing puts a HUGE crimp in DMing - a 3d environment, for example, would be virtually (heh) impossible for me to create on my own. I'd be stuck using the prepackaged stuff and would hate it.

I love the fact that a VTT is what it says on the box - a virtual tabletop. Non system specific, and often fairly simple to use - although some of the advanced features can be a bear. I just spent the last year hopping through about half a dozen different systems, so, a VTT that is designed for one game is not something I have any interest in.

 

[carmachu]

Interesting stuff.

I think what I'm mostly taking away from this is that for some people "game night" is not just game night - it's a part of their regular socialization with friends. That makes sense. If you view gaming as a social outlet with your friends, then, sure, VTT play with a bunch of people you're never likely to meet would not seem a very appealing alternative.

Funny about different experiences. I haven't gamed with regular everyday friends since college. For me, enjoying D&D has more often than not, been with other gamers that I've met through gaming, not the other way around.

My current group was a bunch of random people found on online solicitation, by location. We're all within an hour of the DM. I think 1 maybe two people knew each other out of 7.

We're now 8, as one moved away, and 2 joined in, 4 years going on, no sign of letting up. We're been to a couple of each others weddings, seen one and soon to be 2 babies born, the wives have gotten to know some of each other and we swap baby clothes and advice on children.

VVT will never ever, in my experience, come close to replicate what a good solid face to face game brings. Which is not only great gaming, but great fun and friends.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Another good thing about VTT is how much easier it is to pass notes

 

[Hussar]

My current group was a bunch of random people found on online solicitation, by location. We're all within an hour of the DM. I think 1 maybe two people knew each other out of 7.

We're now 8, as one moved away, and 2 joined in, 4 years going on, no sign of letting up. We're been to a couple of each others weddings, seen one and soon to be 2 babies born, the wives have gotten to know some of each other and we swap baby clothes and advice on children.

VVT will never ever, in my experience, come close to replicate what a good solid face to face game brings. Which is not only great gaming, but great fun and friends.

And that's fantastic, for you. It means that you've live at your current location for at least four years. There are many, many situations, particularly for anyone in their 20's, where this just isn't true. Go to college, game with people you meet in college, college ends and everyone scatters, rebuild new group.

Move to a new city following a new job and you're back to square one. Wash, rinse, repeat three or four times and now you're creeping up on forty years old and back to rebuilding a new group yet again.

For example, you mentioned that one has moved away from your group. Is that person still gaming?