Why Is the Cleric Unfun?

[Celebrim]

The Cleric in 3e is far and away the most powerful class in the game. That was a mistake.

Yes, but I think it was an example of overcompensation for how weak clerics were in prior editions. Earlier editions of cleric essentially had as thier only feature walking hit point batteries. There combat ability started out pretty good, but by mid to high levels lagged the fighter sufficiently as to make them pointless in combat. And they had even fewer aggressive spells than they do now, plus buffing wasn't as viable of a strategy.

The same sort of overcompensation can be seen to a lesser extent in the rogue. The rogue ('thief') was even weaker in 1st edition than the cleric. By the time its thief skills started to get reliable, they were generally outshone by stronger magical abilities. Even if they could have backstabbed every round, they still did less damage than a fighter of equivalent level and backstabbing was far far more limited than sneak attacks.

Not surprisingly, in third edition they are two of the most attractive classes in the game. The designers knew where the problem was. Overall, I think they did a good job fixing the problem. The cleric isn't so much overpowered as non-spellcasters are underpowered. Fixing the non-spellcasters by making them effectively spell-casters wouldn't be my preferred approach, but at least it shows that they know where the problem is.

 

[Driddle]

The problem is that against hard encounters you need 4 specific roles fulfilled in 3rd edition. ...

Without one of those, your party will lose against SOME hard encounters.

I've never lost against any hard encounters.

If a situation is more difficult than you have resources to tackle immediately, you back off and replan or restock or reroute around it. That's a core assumption of the roleplaying gaming experiences I've been in: creative solutions, no matter how tough the challenge. You don't lose, per se, you just work through it. ... Kinda like life. After all, it's not as though we're playing a scripted computer game with only one way to force a "win."

Again, the cleric class is not unfun. The people playing clerics are.

 

[Henry]

Cleric is one of those classes apparently considered 'unfun' to play. The most cited reason for this appears to be the fact that he often spends a lot of actions on healing his companions. Why, though, is healing considered unfun?

Beats the hell outta me. I've been a cleric-player since 1987, and have always had a soft spot for both the roleplaying opportunities and the raw power of that class, even in AD&D.

 

[frankthedm]

The cleric isn't so much overpowered as non-spellcasters are underpowered. Fixing the non-spellcasters by making them effectively spell-casters wouldn't be my preferred approach, but at least it shows that they know where the problem is.

Oh, don't worry, the casters will be taken down several notches as well. Wish is just the tip of the iceberg, most of the “casters are better than combatants” dichotomy is not going to make it to 4E. That is a good chunk of what they meant when they said that 4e will be like 3E levels 3-14 spread over 30 levels. Fighters won't just be delivery vehicles that make sure the casters get to the BBEG so they can cast ther Timestop and Splatbook spell combo.

 

[Anthtriel]

I've never lost against any hard encounters.

If a situation is more difficult than you have resources to tackle immediately, you back off and replan or restock or reroute around it. That's a core assumption of the roleplaying gaming experiences I've been in: creative solutions, no matter how tough the challenge. You don't lose, per se, you just work through it. ... Kinda like life. After all, it's not as though we're playing a scripted computer game with only one way to force a "win."

Again, the cleric class is not unfun. The people playing clerics are.

You either have a wise DM, who uses monsters playing to the strength of the group and fudges rolls when things go wrong, or you have a very weird campaign going on.
How many challenging monsters can the whole party flee from, especially if you just realize mid-combat that the fight is not going to work out?

Saying: "You can always flee from it!" doesn't really work when a dragon mauls the party's fighter and you have no healing spells.

 

[Driddle]

You either have a wise DM, who uses monsters playing to the strength of the group and fudges rolls when things go wrong, or you have a very weird campaign going on.

That this surprises you makes me sad for your own experiences.

 

[Nifft]

I mostly DM, so my mindset is already "support" -- I tend to try to set things up so the PCs shine. When I do get to play, I've recently found myself pretty comfortable in support roles. My Cleric used shield other, buffed his allies, flanked, and did other supporty stuff, and we were able to take down foes 6+ CR above our level.

A support cleric behind a good party is frighteningly powerful.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Celebrim]

I mostly DM, so my mindset is already "support" -- I tend to try to set things up so the PCs shine. When I do get to play, I've recently found myself pretty comfortable in support roles. My Cleric used shield other, buffed his allies, flanked, and did other supporty stuff, and we were able to take down foes 6+ CR above our level.

Interesting observation. I also mostly DM.

I wonder how many of the 'Clerics are fun to play (anyway?)' people are also mostly DMs.

 

[carmachu]

Right now, in a party of 6, I play the cleric. Starting out I chooe the cleric because we didnt have one. Someone's taken up a couple levels now at 3rd, but the problem is my healing doesnt go that far, or far enough yet. ESPECIALLY when I do other things....like summon creatures to control the field, like I did last night. Takes away from healing......especially with a barbarian who gets hit ALOT raging.

I know I'm teh second line character....F/CL and Bar tank. the theif maneuvers for damage. the mage does his thing. The bard.....well, better less said about that, but we need a social skill character. And I heal....and tank and suck up damage when I can. I try other items...but right now, not enough spells to go around....yet.

 

[Anthtriel]

That this surprises you makes me sad for your own experiences.

Oh, I've experienced so called TPKs, or indeed character deaths only very, very rarely, and really only when someone or a whole group was getting bored with the characters. In fact, as a DM, I'm probably too lenient, never using Save_or_Die effects for instance.

However, judging from the threads about Save_or_Die, it seems that every second session of every second ENWorld member involves a TPK, so I assume that my experiences are out of the ordinary.