D&D 5E Why is there a Forgery Kit?

[bedir than]

I love the tools, kits, instruments, etc in 5th edition. Most of them make sense, and they are one of the best ways to add 'civilian' flavor to your character. A couple of them frustrate me.

Today I want to talk about the forgery kit.

The activity of forgery is quite important, especially in games with political intrigue. I do not want to rule it out.

What I would rather do is eliminate the forgery kit and instead empower Calligrapher's Supplies and maybe Painter's Tools to do forgery. Looking at the tools section of Xanathar's there's a little overlap between the two, but it only goes one way.

A Calligrapher can forge a signature (DC 20). That's the same level of difficulty as a forger being able to duplicate a wax seal.

Even the list of components is nearly the same. The Forgery Kit having silver and gold leaf (which the Calligraphy Supplies should also have) and supplies for sealing wax and seals. This is the only set of tools that has the sealing wax.

My change would be simple. Calligraphers should have sealing wax and be able to do everything that those who have Forgery Kits do.

This helps the narratives built from the use of tools, and broadens some PC creation by allowing one more tool for a handful of backgrounds.

 

[tommybahama]

If the problem can't be solved with a sword then you don't need it.

But you make a compelling argument.

 

[Horwath]

I love the tools, kits, instruments, etc in 5th edition. Most of them make sense, and they are one of the best ways to add 'civilian' flavor to your character. A couple of them frustrate me.

Today I want to talk about the forgery kit.

The activity of forgery is quite important, especially in games with political intrigue. I do not want to rule it out.

What I would rather do is eliminate the forgery kit and instead empower Calligrapher's Supplies and maybe Painter's Tools to do forgery. Looking at the tools section of Xanathar's there's a little overlap between the two, but it only goes one way.

A Calligrapher can forge a signature (DC 20). That's the same level of difficulty as a forger being able to duplicate a wax seal.

Even the list of components is nearly the same. The Forgery Kit having silver and gold leaf (which the Calligraphy Supplies should also have) and supplies for sealing wax and seals. This is the only set of tools that has the sealing wax.

My change would be simple. Calligraphers should have sealing wax and be able to do everything that those who have Forgery Kits do.

This helps the narratives built from the use of tools, and broadens some PC creation by allowing one more tool for a handful of backgrounds.

Wax seal is not the same as signature.

Signatures are easier to forge as it is only few letters most of the time.

Forgery kit has DC15 to imitate handwriting that is far more complex than a signature. It's a complete style of writing. Much demanding to learn/imitate than a signature.

With Calligrapher tools you could forge a document that only requires a signature of an official person.

But if that official usually writes the whole document that would not be possible.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Except....forgery, while related to painting and calligraphy...is really a different skill. It's just that the tools are similar. And 5e defines crafting skill as skill with the toolkit.

I guess I would argue that forgery involves more than just the paintbrushes. For example, the material it's done on must also match, which might involve some kind of distressing, or other treatment.

 

[bedir than]

Even by Xanathar's, forgery is just the more difficult activities given a lower DC.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I guess I would argue that forgery involves more than just the paintbrushes. For example, the material it's done on must also match, which might involve some kind of distressing, or other treatment.

Even that's a stretch, because it's likely that matching exact document appearance would actually rely on simply obtaining the same material (if the person was familiar with the specific example of the specific document), or be unnecessary, because you just really just need to make the seal/signature/etc. look right.

I suppose there's art forgery, but that's got the same issue - it's just the tools the appropriate artist would use.

Pretty sure this is just a result of not thinking it through on the part of the designers.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Pretty sure this is just a result of not thinking it through on the part of the designers.

So would you just let calligraphers and/or painters be good at forgery, as part of their proficiency? I see it as an artifact of the decision to associate skills with their tools, not a lack of thought on the part of the designers.

I could see an urchin-turned-assassin being good at writing a wedding invitation, but not so sure the old sage who was an illuminator as a young monk should be good at forgery.

Then again, maybe. Food for thought.

 

[Minigiant]

A forgery kit has different types of pens and paper.

A painter's or calligrapher's kit only contains one kind of paper and pen.

If formal and informal papers use different paper and pens, you would need the forgery kit or multiple different sets of the calligrapher's or painter's kit..

 

[hbarsquared]

I love the tools, kits, instruments, etc in 5th edition. Most of them make sense, and they are one of the best ways to add 'civilian' flavor to your character. A couple of them frustrate me.

Today I want to talk about the forgery kit.

The activity of forgery is quite important, especially in games with political intrigue. I do not want to rule it out.

What I would rather do is eliminate the forgery kit and instead empower Calligrapher's Supplies and maybe Painter's Tools to do forgery. Looking at the tools section of Xanathar's there's a little overlap between the two, but it only goes one way.

A Calligrapher can forge a signature (DC 20). That's the same level of difficulty as a forger being able to duplicate a wax seal.

Even the list of components is nearly the same. The Forgery Kit having silver and gold leaf (which the Calligraphy Supplies should also have) and supplies for sealing wax and seals. This is the only set of tools that has the sealing wax.

My change would be simple. Calligraphers should have sealing wax and be able to do everything that those who have Forgery Kits do.

This helps the narratives built from the use of tools, and broadens some PC creation by allowing one more tool for a handful of backgrounds.

Go for it. 5e is meant to be tweaked in this way.

One could just as well argue the Painting skill should be broken up into watercolor, oils, acrylic, and even spraypaint (I'm sure I'm missing, I don't know, a hundred other art styles), all of which require different tools and different techniques.

But this is a game, and we don't need to be that fine-grained (unless you want to with your all-bard party, have at it!).

Personally, I'm a fan of having your mundane skill able to be applied to as an adventurer skill (Calligraphy to Forgery, Tinkerer to Thieve's, etc).

 

[bedir than]

A forgery kit has different types of pens and paper.

A painter's or calligrapher's kit only contains one kind of paper and pen.

If formal and informal papers use different paper and pens, you would need the forgery kit or multiple different sets of the calligrapher's or painter's kit..

Xanathar's says "three quills" for calligraphy, not one.
It says "a dozen sheets of parchment" no mention of being a single kind beyond that. it would be absurd to think they are all the same. No artist would have just one type and size of paper